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I am translating a documentary on agriculture, and I have been unable to find an English translation for the term '"Iournade" or possibly '"Journade". It means the area that two oxen can work in day "la surface que pouvait labourer une paire de bœufs dans la journée, qui pouvait faire 20 ares en plaine et 27 sur les côteaux"
Explanation: The area you give 20 ares is about an acre (I think) and an acre was the original area able to be worked by 2 horses in England, long time ago. Perhaps there is an old French term for acre. Does the word 'are' come from 'acre'? This really is food for thought or my ramblings, so wait for other answers.
Yes, you're right about the difference in area. I don't understand why at all - perhaps the acre was also a variable measurement initially, before later becoming fixed. I think a yard can also be variable. Interestingly, an Irish acre is bigger than a standard acre: an Irish mile is also longer than a standard mile (even downhill), so it's unlikely Irish oxen could plough a larger number of acres in a week! You're right that it doesn't make sense for the ploughing to be quicker on the hills, unless perhaps they're ploughing much less deeply, or the soil has previously been worked.
Deirdre Brophy (X)
France
ASKER
15:24 Feb 25, 2014
Thanks Bashiqa, you had me! Maybe the guy just got mixed up on the 20 / 27 ares thing...
"During the Middle Ages, an acre was the amount of land that could be ploughed in one day with a yoke of oxen and measured by one chain in width (22 yards), and one furlong, or 10 chains in length (220 yards), yielding 4840 square yards." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre
I like your attribution of the discrepancy to lunch duration, Bashiqa! I like too your tongue-in-cheek comment about oxen running downhill! (Of course, a helicopter or ski-lift takes them back to the top...). I still can't understand why the French text claims "20 ares en plaine et 27 sur les côteaux" - it's just absurd for a ploughman or farmer who knows his beasts and their capabilities. It should be the other way round. As for the surface area covered in a day, maybe your jest is true, Deirdre, that English (and Irish?) oxen pull quicker than French... (I bet that stirs up a hornet's nest!).
Having noticed that you are a relevant newcomer to the site please note that some of my replies, discussion points are to be taken with a pinch of salt. Some others might say a complete spoonful. I think in this case my ideas are on the right track (no pun intended).
English acre was based on horses working and not cows, therefore assuming theyare racehorses much quicker. In any case the English don't take as long over lunch, so more working hours in the day.
Two enigmas: A. The Encyclopedia Britannica link posted by Alison states: "the acre had one origin in the typical area that could be plowed in one day with a yoke of oxen pulling a wooden plow." If an acre approximates to 40.47 ares (see my comment on Bashiqa's reply), then a 'journade' is only half an acre on level ground? B. Why should a yoke of oxen be faster in ploughing sloping ground than flat soil?
Deirdre Brophy (X)
France
ASKER
11:08 Feb 25, 2014
Thanks! I think you are both right. Acre was used in England, And Jugere was used (orignally by the Romans?) in France and other countries. I hesitate between the terms, because a Jugere correpsonds to the area described (20 -25 ares) but 'acres' are more familiar to most English speakers, but then I would have to convert ares to some other unit of measurement! Decisions, decisions....
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Answers
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Acre
Explanation: The area you give 20 ares is about an acre (I think) and an acre was the original area able to be worked by 2 horses in England, long time ago. Perhaps there is an old French term for acre. Does the word 'are' come from 'acre'? This really is food for thought or my ramblings, so wait for other answers.
Bashiqa France Local time: 18:05 Works in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 20
Grading comment
Thanks, acre seems to be an equivalent English term, bearing in mind that the surface area is not the same
Reference comments
2 hrs
Reference: journal de boeufs, jugère
Reference information: La labourée de bœufs est une mesure agraire ancienne, autrement dit une mesure de superficie.
Elle correspond à la surface pouvant être labourée par un attelage de bœufs, soit en une seule journée, c'est-à-dire un journal de bœufs ou un jugère, see wikipedia
wikipedia
piazza d France Works in field Native speaker of: French
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