comme si

English translation: as though

10:51 Dec 14, 2013

French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature

French term or phrase: comme si

A literary text: "Tu [Theseus] ne peux pas être vaincu au pays de Minos. La voile écarlate te ramènera. Je [his father] ne puis donc m'expliquer l'angoisse qui me déchire, comme si la voile ne devait jamais être hissée."

Theseus cannot be defeated, hence the black sail of defeat will not be hoisted. Nevertheless, his father is anguished. The sense of "comme si" here is "although / even though" rather than the standard "as if / as though".

Has anyone come across this sense before? Examples?

TIA.

DLyons KudoZ activity Questions: 83 (none open) Answers: 4291 Ireland
Local time: 06:48

English translation:as though

Explanation:
I think the father is saying he is as anxious ***as if*** he knew that what he has just asserted - that Theseus will never be defeated and that [therefore] that the scarlet sail (of his boat, I assume without further context, representing by synecdoche the boat itself) will bring him home - will in fact prove wrong: i.e. Theseus will be defeated (killed, even) and so the red sail will not be hoisted for his boat to carry him triumphantly back.

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Note added at 1 hr (2013-12-14 12:00:43 GMT)
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Oops, that was meant to be a 4, not a 5 - this is clearly open to interpretation (cf. the fact that it's posted as a question!) - but am reasonably confident of mine

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Note added at 1 hr (2013-12-14 12:03:57 GMT)
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And sorry for that very long sentence!

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Note added at 1 hr (2013-12-14 12:11:05 GMT)
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"I'm as anxious as (I would be) if I knew the scarlet sail would never be hoisted (to bring you back)."

Selected response from:

Victoria Britten
France
Local time: 07:48

Grading comment

Many thanks Victoria.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

5 +7

as though

Victoria Britten

3 +2

his anxiety remains unexplained, as if the sail had not been not hoisted

John Holland

as if to say

Paul Hirsh

and yet...

Lara Barnett

Discussion entries: 5

Answers

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +7

as though

Victoria Britten
France
Local time: 07:48
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

Many thanks Victoria.

1 hr confidence:

comme si (here) and yet...

Explanation:
If you are still looking for something other than "as if", this is a very non-literal translation but could still link up the two phrases and produce the same result.

Lara Barnett
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:48
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 4

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks Lara. A good alternative for my original suggestion.

40 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

comme si (here) his anxiety remains unexplained, as if the sail had not been not hoisted

Explanation:
I think it is that he does not understand why he continues to have the same feelings after as he had before. Because he cannot explain his feelings, it is "as if/as though" his son could still be defeated.

For more on "comme si," please see the TLF on-line, in particular 4 B (b), "comme si" with followed by a verb in the "imparfait:"
http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/comme

"[Comme] sert à introduire un ex. qu'il présente comme conforme (ou quasi-identique) au modèle implicitement envisagé (cf. tel, le plus souvent commutable avec comme)"

The continuity here is subjective; it is a matter of how the same feelings of anguish inexplicably remain, "comme si la voile ne devait jamais être hissée." That seems similar to the examples provided at the link above.

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Note added at 1 hr (2013-12-14 12:17:11 GMT)
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I think the nuance of language lies in the way that "comme si" puts the focus on the constant, "quasi-identique" feelings of unexplained anxiety rather than on the discontinuity of these feelings with the the situation as such.

Also, while I find Victoria's interpretation of the reasons for the anxiety quite plausible, I don't think we know from the French why the father (Poseidon) is anxious in the text given here. The grammar seems to put the emphasis on the fact that he himself does not know why:
"Je ne puis donc m'expliquer l'angoisse qui me déchire, comme si...."

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Note added at 1 hr (2013-12-14 12:40:15 GMT)
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The verb tense I used in my proposed answer is meant to highlight the subjective conflict Poseidon is experiencing. In his mind, victory is certain. However, he simultaneously is anxious about this outcome.

Finally, he does not know why he remains upset; he cannot explain it. That, to me, is key here.

John Holland
France
Local time: 07:48
Works in field
Native speaker of: English

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks John. A perfectly good alternative and I appreciate the nuances you uncovered.

1 hr confidence:

comme si (here) as if to say

Explanation:
as if tellling me the sail should never be raised

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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-12-14 13:20:23 GMT)
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as if it's warning me

Paul Hirsh
France
Local time: 07:48
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 44

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks Paul - much appreciated.

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English translation: as though

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