a sucker, a barren branch or... ?

English translation: water shoot

08:44 Oct 23, 2013
English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Art/Literary - Botany / Metaphor used in a financial context
English term or phrase: a sucker, a barren branch or... ?
I need a word for my metaphor that denotes a branch/shoot of a plant like tomato, or of a fruit-tree, that is overly robust and puts all energy into growth rather than bearing fruit. It usually gets trimmed/pruned to stimulate the plant to spawn fruit

"sucker" brings a lot of unwanted connotations along (or does it?), as seemingly does "barren branch"

TIA
danya
Local time: 12:17
Selected answer:water shoot
Explanation:
would work with fruit trees, although I haven't heard it used with tomatoes:

From the RHS site:

Over-pruning (removing more than one quarter of the canopy in any one year) may result in the production of water shoots, which are tall, upright and leafy branches, producing no flowers or fruit.

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?pid=279

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Note added at 7 mins (2013-10-23 08:52:08 GMT)
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To my mind, a sucker usually comes from the root stock underground and has to be pulled off as low as possible to the ground

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Note added at 9 mins (2013-10-23 08:54:14 GMT)
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With tomatoes we remove side shoots to encourage the plant to put growth into the main stem and subsequent fruits, but these side shoots will also produce fruit and flowers if left, albeit taking strength away from the main stem

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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-10-23 11:20:12 GMT)
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Well, I'm not a trained botanist or horticulturalist, just a keen amateur gardener and allotment owner! Water shoot is the term I've always heard in connection with fruit trees, side shoot for tomatoes, but I don't think you could successfully use either for the other species, i.e. side shoots for apple trees, or water shoots for tomatoes. Growth shoots perhaps might work as a general expression, if that's what you need?
Selected response from:

Claire Cox
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:17
Grading comment
thank you
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
3 +2water shoot
Claire Cox
4off-shoot
Andrea Burde (X)
3 -2runner
Tony M


Discussion entries: 11





  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
water shoot


Explanation:
would work with fruit trees, although I haven't heard it used with tomatoes:

From the RHS site:

Over-pruning (removing more than one quarter of the canopy in any one year) may result in the production of water shoots, which are tall, upright and leafy branches, producing no flowers or fruit.

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?pid=279

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Note added at 7 mins (2013-10-23 08:52:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To my mind, a sucker usually comes from the root stock underground and has to be pulled off as low as possible to the ground

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 mins (2013-10-23 08:54:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

With tomatoes we remove side shoots to encourage the plant to put growth into the main stem and subsequent fruits, but these side shoots will also produce fruit and flowers if left, albeit taking strength away from the main stem

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2013-10-23 11:20:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Well, I'm not a trained botanist or horticulturalist, just a keen amateur gardener and allotment owner! Water shoot is the term I've always heard in connection with fruit trees, side shoot for tomatoes, but I don't think you could successfully use either for the other species, i.e. side shoots for apple trees, or water shoots for tomatoes. Growth shoots perhaps might work as a general expression, if that's what you need?

Claire Cox
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:17
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
thank you
Notes to answerer
Asker: thank you for the ample reference! the question is, how "termy" is this term, will it be obviuos to someone with no rural/agricultural background?


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  lindaellen (X)
17 mins
  -> Thanks Linda

agree  B D Finch: Very good summary. I admit to never having heard of "water shoots".
47 mins
  -> Thanks Barbara

agree  Yvonne Gallagher: I've never heard of "water shoots" before. But yes, suckers are from the root stock//most people will understrand "side shoots" as being unwanted though not completely barren
1 hr
  -> Thanks Yvonne - I'm obviously a bigger gardening enthusiast than I'd realised! I've just asked my parents (who are in their late 70s and that's what they'd call it too - likewise keen gardeners but not academics in any shape or form)!))

neutral  Tony M: I share Asker's misgivings: this is too technical a term to work as a metaphor with a lay readership. As an ex-gardener myself, the terms I am familiar with are 'suckers' and 'runners' — on whichever plants, they were undesirable and had to be removed.
1 hr

neutral  Andrea Burde (X): the asker is looking for a metaphore, so It needs to be catchy and easily understood
2 hrs

disagree  Anna Herbst: "DO NOT confuse water shoots with suckers. Water shoots ALWAYS come from the graft" Suckers come from the root stock. http://www.treloarroses.com.au/default.asp? contentID=5 // I am sorry if you took offence to my quote from Treloar Roses' site...
21 hrs
  -> I object to your tone (and your capital letters!) I never said anything to the contrary - in fact if you read my posts carefully you will see I pointed out that suckers come from the rootstock. Please keep up.
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
off-shoot


Explanation:
it depends on the context

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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-10-23 11:17:00 GMT)
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FYI: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/offshoot

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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-10-23 11:32:29 GMT)
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spelling could also be : "offshoot" or "off shoot"


    Reference: http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&p=off+shoot+defi...
Andrea Burde (X)
Canada
Local time: 05:17
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  writeaway: context: "metaphor that denotes a branch/shoot of a plant like tomato, or of a fruit-tree, that is overly robust and puts all energy into growth rather than bearing fruit. It usually gets trimmed/pruned to stimulate the plant to spawn fruit."
1 hr
  -> an offshoot is a bastard branch of something...Example: a gucci offshoot ...

neutral  Tony M: 'offshoot' doesn't necessarily mean 'bastard...' A Gucci offshoot is probably a great idea ;-) I feel this would convey quite the wrong impression.
2 hrs
  -> A bastard branch is simply another word for offshoot in botany. I don't think bastard works for the asker's metaphore. I still say it would be nice if we knew the cotext...
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4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -2
runner


Explanation:
Although it's not quite the same thing, it does convey the same image: an unwanted offshoot that does not bear fruit.

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Note added at 1 hr (2013-10-23 10:43:50 GMT)
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'Sucker' is fine, it is indeed the term we use for unwanted side-shoots on tomato plants, and is not merely confined to grafted plants.

However, depending on how you structure your metaphor, as you say, the commonly understood colloquial meaning of 'sucker' might get in the way... the problem you may have here is that your readers might not be gardeners!

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Note added at 1 day8 mins (2013-10-24 08:53:48 GMT)
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In the light of the additional information about the purpose of your metaphor, this suggestion clearly wouldn't work.

Tony M
France
Local time: 10:17
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Yvonne Gallagher: Sorry to disagree but runner usually used for strawberry plants or other plants that spread by this means and are the new plantlets to be next year's plants and crops.//Just that these are not "barren"
1 hr
  -> Quite, G! I do know what runners are, I think I made clear the difference; but as Asker specifically said s/he is only looking for something similar to be used as a metaphor, I don't think botanical precision is really the main criterion.

neutral  Andrea Burde (X): Tony, sorry, German has nothing to do with it...
2 hrs
  -> No worries! Sometimes knowledge from another language can shed light(we had a good electrical example the other day!), but it can also sometimes lead to confusion ;-)

disagree  Claire Cox: Sorry, Tony, but I'm with Yvonne on this one; runners apply to strawberries or buttercups or the like... / I think we'd really need to see the sentence in which the asker wants to use it to be perfectly sure what would work or not
2 hrs
  -> Yes, of course, Claire — but why would that stop it working for Asker's metaphor? You also get them on roses, for example, and plum trees... the key point is, they don't flower or fruit.
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