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Dutch to English translations [PRO] Bus/Financial - Human Resources
Dutch term or phrase:afstand tot de arbeidsmarkt
Hi there
I am translating a text regarding the shortage of skilled professionals in the construction industry. I came across the above term in the following context:
'Is het inzetten van mensen met een afstand tot de arbeidsmarkt een oplossing voor de naderende personeelstekorten?'
I am unsure how this would be translated in English and would appreciate any suggestions. Thank you!
Explanation: if it's plain English you're looking for! In other words, people who don't have the right education, training, skills, etc. to be readily employable.
Usually, "afstand tot de arbeidsmarkt" refers generally to someone's (relative) job/employment prospects and "grote afstand tot de arbeidsmarkt" = poor/very poor job/employment prospects, but it's clear the latter is meant here.
Used to be phase 4 in the employment service's "kansmeter" (jobseeker classification instrument), which classified people according to their job prospects. From my own glossary: "Phase 4 is reserved for people who have very poor job prospects and require ‘social activation’ before they are eligible for a programme aimed at getting them into employment."
You said: Comment: They are looking for skilled workers. Certainly these categories cannot be considered skilled workers. (1) You derive this from the tiny fragment of context we have been given by the Asker. Also, how are we to know how important this aspect is to the actual phrase we are being asked to translate? All the Asker did was tell us, off the top of her head, what her text as a whole is about. I don’t think it's safe to infer too much about how to use this phrase without more context. (2) 'Certainly these categories cannot be considered skilled workers.' ... Can't they? Can't a person who suffers from a light mental disability of some form be a fully qualified plumber? Can't a person who has had the misfortune of having been out of work for a long time also be a fully qualified plumber?
And you wrote: 'possibly including the underprivileged.' Exactly my point. By saying this, you admit the possibility that your answer doesn't cover the full meaning of the expression. And this group ('the underprivileged') is only one of the various groups that constitute this larger group of people. Remember that there are also all the other groups (that I mentioned).
Ja, sorry, dat probeerde ik ook, maar je weet hoe ik ben ;)
You wrote: Question: Is specific reference being made to these categories? No. However, try Googling the Dutch expression "afstand tot de arbeidsmarkt" (https://www.google.nl/#q="afstand tot de arbeidsmarkt" ) and see what you get. You might notice that the meaning of this expression, in Dutch, seems to be rather similar to the meaning, in English, of 'at distance from the labour market' that is used by the UK and Scottish government organisations I have quoted elsewhere on this page.
Question: Is specific reference being made to these categories?
Comment: They are looking for skilled workers. Certainly these categories cannot be considered skilled workers. Further this seems to me to be something of an overstatement -
"might very well meet the requirements for working in the construction industry"
Further, the problem is here not that they don't want to employ certain categories of people, on the contrary, that they intend to employ people who are not skilled workers, possibly including underpriviliged.
❝Certainly also these categories of people, should they be included, don't meet the requirements for working in the construction industry. 'don't meet the requirements' can be used for any unsuitable category:= here not being skilled professionals.❞
I don’t agree. The following people:
✪ Mensen met een (licht) verstandelijke beperking ✪ Psychisch kwetsbare mensen ✪ Mensen met een lichamelijke handicap ✪ Mensen met onvoldoende opleiding of een leerachterstand ✪ Landurig werkzoekenden
...might very well 'meet the requirements for working in the construction industry.' It's just that they have other problems that might place them 'at a distance from the labour market'.
More specifically,
– people who suffer from a '(licht) verstandelijke beperking' might very well be perfectly qualified, and thus meet the requirements. – 'Psychisch kwetsbare mensen': ditto – 'Mensen met een lichamelijke handicap': ditto – 'Mensen met onvoldoende opleiding of een leerachterstand': indeed, these people might not meet the requirements. – 'Landurig werkzoekenden': could of course also meet all of the requirements. It's just that they have been out of work for a long time
I am not claiming the term 'met een afstand tot de arbeidsmarkt' cannot be used for these categories of people, the question is whether it used here and in this context for these categories.
If it is used for these categories, here and in this context, which I am doubtful about, then, it seems, 'at a distance from the labour market', could be used.
✪ Mensen met een (licht) verstandelijke beperking ✪ Psychisch kwetsbare mensen ✪ Mensen met een lichamelijke handicap ✪ Mensen met onvoldoende opleiding of een leerachterstand ✪ Landurig werkzoekenden
What you are doing, saying and presuming is that "met een afstand tot de arbeidsmarkt' is used here and in this context and in Dutch the same as 'at a distance from the labour market' in government circles in Britain.
❝@Michael, I had a glance at the references found at site:uk. It would seem this expression 'at a distance from the labour market' is predominantly used as a kind of 'euphemism' in goverment circles with respect to the underprivileged.❞
Exactly. Please note that the author of the Asker's text chose to use this specific expression: 'mensen met een afstand tot de arbeidsmarkt'. He or she did not use something like 'mensen die niet voldoen aan de minimum eisen', or some such. You have to ask yourself: why was this particular expression chosen? We might not like the English expression 'people at a (great) distance from the labour market'. However, it is used in certain circles, and would seem to be the closest thing we have in English to the way the author chose to express him or herself in this text.
We were told (by the Asker) that the text is about 'the shortage of skilled professionals in the construction industry'. True. However, we were not told who the author is, who the target audience is, and a number of other things that might very well show that such a euphemistic, government speak expression is what is needed in the translation as well.
het tamelijk druk op dit ogenblik dus ik houd het kort.
@ Natasha, we hebben het hier over een tekort aan geschikte mensen (shortage of skilled professionals) in de bouw. En nu willen ze mensen gaan aannemen die niet over de opleiding/diploma's/vaardigheden/ervaring/mentaliteit/etc. beschikken die een bouwvakker nodig heeft. Dat is hoe ik 'afstand tot de arbeidsmarkt' hier opvat.
@Michael, I had a glance at the references found at site:uk. It would seem this expression 'at a distance from the labour market' is predominantly used in government circles as a kind of 'euphemism' with respect to the underprivileged.
I suppose it would depend on the desired tone of the translation. Please note that although the expression 'at a (great) distance from the labour market' might not exactly be widely used in everyday language, it is used quite a bit in certain specific circles. That is, by UK and Scottish government organisations. Therefore, if you want your text to sound like some fancy-pants civil servant wrote it, this would be a very accurate and elegant solution. If you don't, it wouldn't.
Natasha Ziada (X)
Australia
@Barend
10:20 Sep 17, 2013
Als je het hebt over de minimumeisen van een baan, leg je de nadruk op de capaciteiten die nodig zijn voor bepaalde werkzaamheden. Mensen met een afstand tot de arbeidsmarkt zijn mensen die wellicht ruimschoots aan die eisen voldoen, maar om wellicht heel andere redenen niet in staat zijn werk te vinden.
Daarnaast: Als die mensen aan het werk geholpen worden, is er - naast het oplossen van het arbeidstekort in de sector - ook een slag geslagen met het maatschappelijk probleem van langdurig werklozen. Die dimensie ontbreekt als je je op de minimumeisen focust.
I am primarily responding to the claim that it is widely used. This seems not to be the case, at least not in the UK.
This means, the argument that this suggestion should be used because it occurs this frequently is no longer valid. Also, the fact that an option presumably occured this frequently does not imply that there are no other useful and may be even more preferable options.
Especially if these more specifically or accurately or elegantly convey the meaning of the content in the source.
NEETS ' does seem to apply mainly to young people. The category of workers is defined here:
They are a group who are characterised as:
People with a (slightly) intellectual disability Psychologically vulnerable people People with physical disabilities People with insufficient training or learning Prolonged jobseekers
mensen met een grote afstand tot de arbeidsmarkt = people at a great distance from the labour market
see:
'As a result of the successful welfare-to-workfare transition in the Netherlands, only people “at a great distance from the labour market” are still entitled to social benefits - and these tend disproportionately to be immigrants, most of whom are low-skilled or otherwise impaired when competing in the labor market.'
Explanation: Ons land telt duizenden werklozen waar de samenleving zich niet goed raad mee weet. Jongeren met een afgebroken schoolopleiding, langdurig werklozen zonder diploma’s of werkervaring, WAO-ers die weer zijn goedgekeurd nadat ze langdurig thuis hebben gezeten.
Doordat er geen goede aansluiting te maken valt naar een baan of een opleiding, blijven deze mensen aan de kant staan – zelfs in een periode waarin het bedrijfsleven schreeuwt om personeel. De stichting Herstelling doet daar iets aan. http://www.herstelling.nl/over-herstellingalgemeen/jongeren-...
Explanation: Acronym: 'Not In Education, Employment or Training' ie people who have never had a job. e.g. "Jongeren met afstand tot de arbeidsmarkt Ons land telt duizenden werklozen waar de samenleving zich niet goed raad mee weet. Jongeren met een afgebroken schoolopleiding, langdurig werklozen zonder diploma’s of werkervaring, WAO-ers die weer zijn goedgekeurd nadat ze langdurig thuis hebben gezeten." http://www.herstelling.nl/over-herstellingalgemeen/jongeren-...
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 17 mins (2013-09-16 14:42:08 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
They are a group who are characterised as:
People with a (slightly) intellectual disability Psychologically vulnerable people People with physical disabilities People with insufficient training or learning Prolonged jobseekers
Dr Lofthouse France Local time: 00:07 Native speaker of: English, Italian
22 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +5
(mensen met een grote) afstand tot de arbeidsmarkt
(people at a great) distance from the labour market
Explanation: See discussion entries.
'By way of contrast, recent pilot projects funded by Scottish Enterprise through the New Futures Fund have been targeted at people with multiple disadvantages who are at a distance from the labour market, including disabled people who are incapacity benefit claimants.' (http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/01/20511/49769 )
'Deliver a client centred services that assists people who are at a distance from the labour market, including people with health and capability issues, to be prepare for employment and to move into the world of work' (http://www.highland.gov.uk/businessinformation/economicdevel... )
• Deliver a client centred services that assists people who are at a distance from the labour market, including people with health and capability issues, to be prepare for employment and to move into the world of work
Michael Beijer United Kingdom Local time: 00:07 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 48
