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principe réparatoire

English translation: remedial principle

22:27 Jun 9, 2013
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Insurance
French term or phrase: principe réparatoire
This shows up in an insurance report for a car that caught fire in an underground parking garage. "Principe de réfection" also appears in the same section, and I am curious if they are referring to the same thing, but I will post it separately so as not to violate KudoZ policies.

Context:

5.1 OBJET
L'objet de cette réunion était d'approuver le principe réparatoire et d'arrêter le montant des dommages au parking.
5.2. LIEU
La réunion d'expertise se tient sur les lieux du sinistre dans le parking souterrain du marché [LOCATION].

...

5.4 DEBATS
Nous pointons et analysons poste par poste. Il a été retenu un principe de réfection de la structure par purge et la mise en œuvre d'acier de béton projeté. Cette solution s'est avérée plus économique qu'une solution de type fibre de carbone.
Roberta Beyer
United States
Local time: 21:39
English translation:remedial principle
Explanation:
NOT the principle that the insurer is now liable for a remedy and there will be one, but the principle *by which* the nature, amount and adequacy of the remedy will be determined.

Sure, it's legal jargon, but then, this is insurance.

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Note added at 19 hrs (2013-06-10 17:46:34 GMT)
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cf. "… défini et chiffré le principe réparatoire adapté, lequel n'a été arrêté que très tardivement dans le cadre du rapport partiel d'expertise de MM.…"
-- Cour d'appel de Bourges, 2007 (http://legimobile.fr/fr/jp/j/ca/18033/2007/9/20/06_10734/)
i.e., the (suitable) principle on which a proposed remedy can be quantified.

"Remedial principles" crop up in English in a wide variety of legal contexts. They tend to be expressed in notions such as "restoration of the status quo ante", "proportionality", "equivalence", "equal treatment", and so on.
Selected response from:

rkillings
United States
Local time: 19:39
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2remedial principle
rkillings
4 +1repair basis
B D Finch
4repairs
Marie Wagner (X)
4basis of payment of the claim
AllegroTrans
3coverage/payment for the repairs
gail desautels
3remedy principle
Nikki Scott-Despaigne


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
repairs


Explanation:
Même signification que principe de réfection - en fait l'assurance préfère s'occuper des réparations elle-même que de payer les dégâts, cela lui revenant moins cher - elle choisit ses ouvriers et échappe aux dommages et intérêts la plupart du temps. Il s'agit du principe de "remise en état".

Marie Wagner (X)
Malta
Local time: 04:39
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
coverage/payment for the repairs


Explanation:
....et ensuite sur les véritables protections
(indemnisation ou principe réparatoire).

http://conferences.lemoniteur.fr/RPE/pdf/Transcription-RPE-2...

gail desautels
Canada
Local time: 22:39
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
remedy principle


Explanation:
I suspect it means "réparation" http://www.dictionnaire-juridique.com/definition/reparation.... in the sense of remedy as distinguished from "réfection" meaning actual, physical repair to correct the damage.
Thus, the "principe réparatoire" discussed is the principle that X (or his insurer) is liable and so bears the burden of correcting the damage caused. Then , in 5.4, item by item the form the "réparation" takes is in carrying out repairs to the car, thus the "réfection de la structure etc".

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Note added at 9 hrs (2013-06-10 08:18:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The principle in English law goes back some way : "ubi jus ibi remedium", where there is a right, there must be a remedy.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 04:39
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 113

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  writeaway: why would they have a meeting to approve an established legal principle?
7 hrs
  -> They don't; the meeting they discuss the form the remedy will take, here, in the form of the repairs (attention, false friend) to the car.
neutral  AllegroTrans: Using "principle" in English is somewhat confusing; the meaning in FR is rather wider
8 hrs
  -> Legal English is overflowing with principles, most ancient and Latin. This one, where a right, there a remedy.
neutral  B D Finch: There's probably not much left of the car. It seems to be the building that is being repaired.
9 hrs
  -> Whatever is being repaired, that is covered in the term "réfection" and yes, to the car parking structure, rather than the car.
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10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
repair basis


Explanation:
recoverydiva.files.wordpress.com/.../oloughlin-v-tower-insurance-ltd.pdf‎
"Insurance Ltd (Tower) under their house policy. The policy was taken ... Tower has elected to proceed on a repair basis rather than a rebuild or ... "

www.statesassembly.gov.je/AssemblyReports/.../14218-24227-2...‎
"Register of Buildings and Sites of Architectural, Archaeological and Historical Importance. ... Costs were calculated on a like-for-like replacement or repair basis and also included ... fabric, services, utility costs and insurance."


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2013-06-10 09:23:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Settling the claim on the basis of repairing the existing building rather than demolishing and rebuilding.

B D Finch
France
Local time: 04:39
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 92

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Dr Lofthouse: agree (restitution )
18 mins
  -> Thanks DrL. Not too sure about "restitution" though; couldn't that include stuff that this is not about, like loss of revenue?
neutral  AllegroTrans: "basis of reparation" could work
9 hrs
  -> Yes, I think you are right about which meaning of réparatoire this is.
neutral  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: "reparation" = remedy; "réfection" = repairs. "Réparation" is the abstract notion of remedying the damage caused. The "réfection" describes how that translates into repairs.
11 hrs
  -> Yes and no: holocaust reparations couldn't "remedy" the holocaust. Réfection is more than simply "repairs", it is reconstruction/repair to a state of good-as-new..
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10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
basis of payment of the claim


Explanation:
The meeting is to discuss how the claim will be calculated and paid
I think "principle" is something of a false frine here

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2013-06-10 17:01:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

reparation dommage - dissertation - 1
Cas pratique : le dommage et la responsabilité délictuelle. La réparation du dommage, modalités, étendue et évaluation. Le dommage réparable. Le dommage moral ...
www.oboulo.com/reparation dommage - Cached

AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:39
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 130

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  rkillings: I can't disagree that 'basis of payment' would do, but how is 'principle' a false friend when meaning 3 of that word in the COED is "a fundamental source or basis of something"?
8 hrs
  -> well, the FR word has a somewhat wider meaning than in EN in my experience and it is not an exact synonym for "basis"
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
remedial principle


Explanation:
NOT the principle that the insurer is now liable for a remedy and there will be one, but the principle *by which* the nature, amount and adequacy of the remedy will be determined.

Sure, it's legal jargon, but then, this is insurance.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2013-06-10 17:46:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

cf. "… défini et chiffré le principe réparatoire adapté, lequel n'a été arrêté que très tardivement dans le cadre du rapport partiel d'expertise de MM.…"
-- Cour d'appel de Bourges, 2007 (http://legimobile.fr/fr/jp/j/ca/18033/2007/9/20/06_10734/)
i.e., the (suitable) principle on which a proposed remedy can be quantified.

"Remedial principles" crop up in English in a wide variety of legal contexts. They tend to be expressed in notions such as "restoration of the status quo ante", "proportionality", "equivalence", "equal treatment", and so on.

rkillings
United States
Local time: 19:39
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 148
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you, I did end up using remedial principle.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  GILLES MEUNIER
34 mins
neutral  writeaway: why would they have a meeting to approve an established legal principle?
2 hrs
  -> You miss my point. They are meeting to approve a choice of one of the various "remedial principles" that could be applied to determine a remedy -- not *the* legal principle of a remedy.
neutral  AllegroTrans: The principle already exists: in this context the word is something of a false friend
3 hrs
  -> Not *that* principle. And English use to love principles almost as much as French likes 'principes'. Not a false friend, just an out-of-fashion one in colloquial language.
agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Yes, "reparation" for remedy. Near false friend for repairs, but I agree, two distinct notions. (War reparations still used in English and not to describe repairs, but the remedy).
15 hrs
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