carder les coussins

English translation: clawing the cushions

14:46 Jun 4, 2013

French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature

French term or phrase: carder les coussins

Still with the Theseus legend.

The adolescent Phaedra will eventually marry the much older hero Theseus. But, at present, he loves her elder sister, Ariadne, to whom he says about Phaedra:

"La nuit, à travers la mince cloison de bois, je l'entends gémir en proie à je ne sais quels songes.
Elle doit carder les coussins, comme une jeune panthère."

It doesn't seem to be a standard phrase. Maybe it's related to "Carder ses matelas: S'étendre souvent sur ses matelas (et ainsi en carder souvent la laine) en menant une vie de débauche."?

All suggestions gratefully received.

TIA.

DLyons KudoZ activity Questions: 83 (none open) Answers: 4291 Ireland
Local time: 18:47

English translation:clawing the cushions

Explanation:
what a panther might do

Selected response from:

Paul Hirsh
France
Local time: 19:47

Grading comment

Thanks Paul. I think that's the image OK.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

3 +2

clawing the cushions

Paul Hirsh

teasel/raise the nap of cushions

Catharine Cellier-Smart

roughing the cushions

Nicholas Andrew Courtney

Discussion entries: 9

DLyons

Ireland

ASKER

@Catharine

10:09 Jun 6, 2013

If I post anything about the Theseus legend, that's the way to go. There's a strong underlying sexual current in the piece.

Thanks again,

Donal.

Catharine Cellier-Smart

Reunion

@DL

10:04 Jun 6, 2013

I only saw your discussion entry once I'd posted my answer.

Watch out - I'll be looking for sexual innuendo in all of your questions from now on - whatever the subject matter!

DLyons

Ireland

ASKER

10:00 Jun 6, 2013

Sorry if I caused any confusion. I did know the literal meaning and had checked if this was just some metaphor that I didn't know - that turned up "Carder ses matelas" which didn't apply exactly but was suggestive. As happens, a few minutes after posting, I saw what was probably meant and I posted a discussion entry "Maybe scratching the cushions like a young caged pather is the image?" So Catharine could perhaps have seen what was in my mind without actual mind-reading? I appreciate her reply and found it helpful (I played around with the teasel/tease image for a while).

Tony M

France

@ Catharine

08:43 Jun 6, 2013

Indeed!

However, giving our colleague DL credit for having done his basic research before posting, when he wrote "It doesn't seem to be a standard phrase..." I assumed that meant 'isn't a commonly-used metaphor', since his other comments make it pretty clear he had understood the literal sense, but was simply puzzled as to how it could apply in this apparently more figurative use.

Have a lovely day!

Catharine Cellier-Smart

Reunion

@Tony

03:42 Jun 6, 2013

The eternal problem with Kudoz is we have to be mind-readers, don't we - we never know what askers have understood. What is obvious for some may not be for others.
DL saying "It doesn't seem to be a standard phrase ... All suggestions gratefully received" led me to believe he did not know the literal meaning.
Added to that is the fact that this is obviously following on from previous questions on the same theme, none of which I had seen, making the Asker's level of understanding and general tone of the document more difficult to grasp.

Paul Hirsh

France

16:24 Jun 4, 2013

if it's any help, cardar is Catalan slang for bonking. The cushions could be any soft parts that come to mind

DLyons

Ireland

ASKER

@Tony

16:15 Jun 4, 2013

Yes, the whole piece is rife with a sexual tension. Phaedra will eventually try to seduce Theseus's son.

Tony M

France

Clawing, please!

15:04 Jun 4, 2013

I think that would be a more evocative verb to use for your caged panther image.

I still feel you're probably on the right lines with the 'rumpling the sheets' idea — especially as they writer also uses 'gémir' and 'proie'. I feel sure some sexual innuendo is intended, and I imagine he may be suggesting that the young Phædra already has a (presumably younger) lover.

DLyons

Ireland

ASKER

14:57 Jun 4, 2013

Maybe scratching the cushions like a young caged pather is the image?

Answers

23 mins confidence:

teasel/raise the nap of cushions

Explanation:
"Carder un coussin" is to teasel or raise the nap of material (such as that covering a cushion); teasel is both the verb and the name of the plant that was used to do this.
I'm not quite sure what the groaning sounds and young panther has to do with it - maybe the idea is that a (young) panther would do this using their claws? As the teasel is spiky maybe it would hurt if not used properly?

"The Fuller's Teasel (the cultivar group Dipsacus fullonum Sativus Group; syn. D. sativus) was formerly widely used in textile processing, providing a natural comb for cleaning, aligning and raising the nap on fabrics, particularly wool."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipsacus

"In the finishing process of manufacturing textiles, after the cloth is woven, it goes through processes such as washing, fulling, raising the nap, and trimming the nap. After the nap is trimmed, the fabric is considered finished. The raising process, which draws out the ends of the fibres, is done on both woollen and cotton fabric.[4] Flannelette is a cotton fabric that goes through this process. There are ways to 'raise the nap', most of which involve wire brushes such as raising cards. Originally, dried teasel pods were used[5] and were still preferred for use on woollen cloth for a long time."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nap_(textile)

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Note added at 35 mins (2013-06-04 15:22:12 GMT)
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Tony's suggestion of clawing at the cushions is a good image of what's being suggested.

Catharine Cellier-Smart
Reunion
Local time: 21:47
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks Catharine. That's certainly the correct literal meaning and I think the image of clawing is what what has to be conveyed. One of the OED senses of "to card" is close "To scratch or tear the flesh with a wool-card or similar instrument, as a method of torture."

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

disagree

Tony M: Surely this is far too literal and completely misses the whole point of the delightfully coy imagery of the original. / I really couldn't imagine that DL had missed the literal meaning.

3 mins

-> I was just about to add a note saying this is obviously a literal explanation. Once the asker has the literal explanation of what is meant (which I don't think he had), up to him to decide how fanciful he wants to be in his translation.

agree

Carol Gullidge: I don't disagree with what Tony says, but I DO think the most helpful answer (especially with literary texts) is often the one that first provides an insight into the text rather than a pithy answer that leaves the Asker with no need to devise his own

1 hr

-> Thank you Carol!

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

clawing the cushions

Explanation:
what a panther might do

Paul Hirsh
France
Local time: 19:47
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 44

Grading comment

Thanks Paul. I think that's the image OK.

14 hrs confidence:

roughing the cushions

Explanation:
As a more general alternative to clawing

Nicholas Andrew Courtney
United States
Local time: 13:47
Native speaker of: English

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks Andrew. I'm going to stick with the image of the panther's claws.

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English translation: clawing the cushions

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