tomtmark

English translation: plot of land (private property)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

Swedish term or phrase:	tomtmark
English translation:	plot of land (private property)
Entered by:	Charlesp

10:35 Apr 10, 2013

Swedish to English translations [PRO]
Real Estate

Swedish term or phrase: tomtmark

In an orienteering programme, listing out-of-bounds areas. Is this "private land" or "residential land" or somesuch?
Thanks,
Oliver

Oliver Dirs KudoZ activity Questions: 8 (none open) (1 without valid answers) (1 closed without grading) Answers: 9 United Kingdom
Local time: 09:55

private property (plot of land)

Explanation:
A tomtmark is a plot of land. Land where a building is on it or may in the future be placed on it; as contrasted with agricultural land or a nature preserve or a forest, etc.

In this particular context, I think it simply means "private property." (and I might add, not privately owned property that is subject to allemansrätten (the rights of general access).

Selected response from:

Charlesp
Sweden
Local time: 10:55

Grading comment

Thanks/Oliver
2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +1

building site

Richard Green

4 +1

zoned and subdivided land approved for development

Sven Petersson

private land

Norskpro

private property (plot of land)

Charlesp

curtilage

Charles Ek

Discussion entries: 7

Charlesp

Sweden

Allemansrätten

13:53 Apr 11, 2013

'Allemansrätten, as old as the concept is, takes away the meaning of "private land" as in "private property." For land that is covered by allemansrätten is no longer private property (even if it is privately owned).
So if they are orienteering in privately owned forests, they are not committing a tresspass, as one could say that is it not "private land."

Richard Green

United Kingdom

HA!

15:16 Apr 10, 2013

That made me laugh, Chris! We need more of this on KudoZ ... it does make the day go quicker.

Christopher Schröder

United Kingdom

So effectively

14:58 Apr 10, 2013

it means keep out of people's gardens

Norskpro

Norway

Unbuilt property

14:04 Apr 10, 2013

I would say that it is the unbuilt area of a property, whether privately owned or not.

Kristian Andersson

Agree with Deane

12:16 Apr 10, 2013

Oliver: I think you should be a bit careful calling it 'private land' as they may well be orienteering in privately owned forests.

Here are some links that might help:

'Allemansrätten gives a person the right to access, walk, cycle, ride, ski, and camp on any land—with the exception of private gardens, the immediate vicinity of a dwelling house and land under cultivation.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam

'Restricted areas are also gardens, cultivated sites, or, constructions made by the owner.'
http://www.sverigeturism.se/smorgasbord/smorgasbord/natrecsp...

'For example, you must not intrude on the grounds of a house or cross cultivated ground.'
http://www.naturvardsverket.se/en/Enjoying-nature/The-Right-...

Oliver Dirs

United Kingdom

ASKER

11:20 Apr 10, 2013

I agree Deane, I think that "tomtmark" here is the opposite of allmän mark. So I guess "private land", "private grounds"? It's not referring to a buliding site./Oliver

Deane Goltermann

Sweden

private lot

11:01 Apr 10, 2013

Isn't all that wrong in your context. When people want to walk in the woods using 'allemansrätten' here in Swe, they are not allowed to trespass on someone's 'tomtmark', which is the lot where their summer cottage, or similar is. If the private property extends several hectares into the 'woods', others can walk there. In the nearby forest where I live, the 'tomtmark' is the zoned/planned lots where people live, even when these extend into the forested area. The orienteering club sets up its trails away from these, deeper in the forest, which is not zoned/planned for housing or building.

Answers

2 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

building site

Explanation:
"Building site" according to Nyströms and Norstedts.

Hope this helps!

Richard Green
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:55
Native speaker of:

English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

JaneD: Sounds right to me!

2 mins

-> Thank you, Jane!

agree

Helen Johnson: and Gullberg

5 mins

-> Thanks Helen!

neutral

Deane Goltermann: Will say that tomtmark' a lot that is zone/planned for building on. But it is not a 'site' where people are actually doing the work. I've disagreed with Norstedts on other misses they've made.

14 mins

-> I picked up on this too, but figured that "building site" can also loosely be interpreted as a "site for building on", although I understand that most people will not understand it in this sense.

agree

George Hopkins: Yes, or building sites.

2 hrs

-> Many thanks, George.

disagree

Norskpro: A building site is where there is building work going on.

2 hrs

disagree

Sven Petersson: As Norskpro

2 hrs

1 hr confidence:

curtilage

Explanation:
I'm not sure there will be an equivalent. However, as a sometime orienteer, erstwhile lawyer and now translator, I think "curtilage" might work.
It's a term that is the basis for a lot of Fourth Amendment law here in the U.S. regarding the necessity of obtaining search warrants. (But it might be too small an area as well.) See the first link for a Wikipedia discussion.

From "Begrepp i bygg- och fastighetssektorn", at the second link, page 120:

"Den indelning av mark som sker vid fastighetstaxering. Marken indelas i följande ägoslag: tomtmark, täktmark, åkermark, betesmark, skogsmark, skogsimpediment och övrig mark."

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Note added at 1 hr (2013-04-10 12:29:44 GMT)
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The more I read of the following brochure, the more convinced I am that "curtilage" works just fine in reflecting the meaning and the inherent ambiguity of "tomtmark" – "Allemansrätten – Vad säger lagen?" http://www.geonord.org/law/pdf/alleman03.pdf

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2013-04-10 12:38:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hi Oliver,
You may well be right. Perhaps "public entry prohibited" then? (Note, however, that the Scots use "curtilage" in a piece on access rights written for the public – http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A309336.pdf. )

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2013-04-10 12:58:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Okay, last attempt (I swear). The IOF used to use "private area" in its list of examples of "Area with forbidden access" – http://orienteering.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Internati... at page 20. I think the IOF standard for the map symbol in question has since been simplified, but "private area" should still work well, especially for experienced orienteers.

Example sentence(s):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtilage

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtilage
Reference: http://www.lth.se/fileadmin/byggnadsekonomi/education/Begrep...

Charles Ek
United States
Local time: 03:55
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 22

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks Charles, it may fit technically but this is for an orienteering programme. I'm not sure anyone would know what "curtilage" meant./Oliver

3 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

zoned and subdivided land approved for development

Explanation:
residential or industrial

Sven Petersson
Sweden
Local time: 10:55
Native speaker of:

Swedish,

English
PRO pts in category: 81

2 hrs confidence:

private land

Explanation:
Wikipedia: Man skiljer mellan tomtmark och allmän mark.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2013-04-10 13:52:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The sample sentences (abruptly cut off, here..) is from the reference.

Example sentence(s):

Nå, men hur vet man vad som är tomtmark? Tomten kan sägas vara marken närmast i första hand bostadshus. Tomten är det område där man har rätt till hemfrid. Det är där man har sina gräsmattor, ansar sina rabatter, sitter i sin hammock och grill

Reference: http://www.sssk.se/kunnande/allemansratt/

Norskpro
Norway
Local time: 10:55
Native speaker of:

Norwegian
PRO pts in category: 16

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks, this was a useful answer. I'm not that up on how Kudoz works. I allocated 2 points to CharlesP's answer and had intended to also allocate you 2 points but I don't think I can split the points, apologies! If you know how I can do this please let me know!/Olliver

1 day 2 hrs confidence:

private property (plot of land)

Charlesp
Sweden
Local time: 10:55
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 18

Grading comment

Thanks/Oliver

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