Ms vs. Mrs

English translation: Ms / Mrs / nothing : personal choice

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:Ms vs. Mrs
Selected answer:Ms / Mrs / nothing : personal choice
Entered by: Tony M

13:09 Oct 1, 2012
English language (monolingual) [Non-PRO]
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters / Registration Form (for schools)
English term or phrase: Ms vs. Mrs
Hello,

Can you help with this, please?

If a woman got married and never changed her surname (and still uses her maiden surname), would she sign as Ms X or MRS X (if though she does not use her husband surname)?

Thank you for your help!
lafresita (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:27
Mrs... or Ms
Explanation:
I would say it really depends on the woman's personal preference.

Generally speaking, one would sign oneself 'Mrs' to indicate the fact that one is married; this does not rpeclude having kept ones maiden name; it would be rather old-fashioned to think of it as meaning 'the wife of Mr X' (in which case the unhanged name might have appeared illogical)

However, the fact that she has chosen to kept her maiden name might indicate she is eager to assert her independence, in which case, she might herself prefer to use 'Ms' — on the basis that it is no-ones business but her own whether she is married or not.

Personally, in a modern business environment, I feel that 'Ms' is generally most appropriate.

You might also wish to consider the fact that in EN, people don't usually tend to us either Mr or Ms when signing off a letter; normally, christian name or initials + surname are quite enough; it might even be considered a point for sexual equality, since after all, what difference should it make if the writer is male or female?

Signing oneself 'Mrs X' is likely perhaps these days to give the letter a 'cosy' feel, which might or might not be appropriate in your register. For example, if someone were replying to an enquiry about a knitting pattern, it might be friendly to sign off as 'Mrs Purl'; such familiarity might however be quite out of place if she was the director of a steelworks writing to sack an employee, in which case S. S. Steel might be more suitable!

The only exception to this might perhaps be if the writer has a christian name that is not obviously a woman's or man's name; in this case, it might be kind to the reader to let them know, simply to avoid them any embarrassment should they have to ring and ask for the person.
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 01:27
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
3 +10Mrs... or Ms
Tony M
3 +7probably neither
Colin Rowe
4 +5Ms.
NancyLynn
4 +1Ms
Jack Doughty


Discussion entries: 18





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
ms vs. mrs
Ms.


Explanation:
Ms. was adopted to remove the personal information conveyed by Miss vs. Mrs., as an equivalent of Mr., which does not reveal any personal information about a man's civil status. The "Ms." title emerged in the 70s, at the height of the women's movement in North America.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 mins (2012-10-01 13:15:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Mrs. or Ms.?
10 Feb 2008 ... Ms. tends to be silent on marital status, even if you know the actual status. Mrs.
tends to be used when you want to acknowledge the "married" marital status.
www.englishforums.com/English/MrsOrMs/hkrr/post.htm - 38k - Similar pages

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 mins (2012-10-01 13:15:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Mrs. or Ms.?
10 Feb 2008 ... Ms. tends to be silent on marital status, even if you know the actual status. Mrs.
tends to be used when you want to acknowledge the "married" marital status.
www.englishforums.com/English/MrsOrMs/hkrr/post.htm - 38k - Similar pages

NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 20:27
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 48

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jenni Lukac (X)
5 mins
  -> Thank you :)

agree  Thayenga: This is absolutely correct. :)
55 mins
  -> Thank you :)

agree  Effie Simiakaki (X)
58 mins
  -> Thank you :)

agree  Lirka
4 hrs
  -> Thank you :)

agree  Charlesp
1 day 3 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
ms vs. mrs
Ms


Explanation:
As a mere man, I am perhaps not best qualified to answer this, but I think a woman using her maiden name would use Ms, or possibly Miss, though this is less popular now that the neutral choice of Ms is available. As a child (over 70 years ago), my piano teacher was known as Miss Palmer, though her married name was Mrs. Wood. Nowadays she would probably opt for Ms. Palmer.

Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:27
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 370
Notes to answerer
Asker: Wow! Jack: your explanation is very thorough and very interesting! The school for which the application is made or rather the registration card is filled in is an independent school that - I would rather say - favours titles like MRS or MISS. I have not seen any MS anywhere.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  B D Finch: As far as I recall, schoolchildren with their hands in the air anxious to be the one chosen to answer always called out "Please Miss!" even if the teacher was officially called Mrs X.
19 hrs
  -> Thank you. I remember that too.

agree  Charlesp
1 day 3 hrs
  -> Thank you.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +7
ms vs. mrs
probably neither


Explanation:
I cannot readily imagine someone "signing" anything as either Ms. or Mrs. It is far more usual to sign "FirstName LastName" or "Initial(s) LastName".

Colin Rowe
Germany
Local time: 01:27
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M
2 mins
  -> Thanks, Tony!

agree  jccantrell: If it truly IS a signature, this would be the way. When was the last time YOU signed with Mr., Mrs., or Ms., as appropriate?
46 mins
  -> Thanks Mr./Mrs./Ms. Cantrell! Signed: Colin Rowe (Mr.)

agree  MPGS: :)
47 mins
  -> Thanks :)

agree  Judith Hehir
2 hrs
  -> Thanks!

agree  Veronika McLaren
2 hrs
  -> Danke!

agree  Charlesp: I completely agree ! (answerer didnt Miss the point here).
1 day 3 hrs
  -> Yes, the whole thing is rather a Mr E!

agree  Evamaren
2 days 8 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +10
Mrs... or Ms


Explanation:
I would say it really depends on the woman's personal preference.

Generally speaking, one would sign oneself 'Mrs' to indicate the fact that one is married; this does not rpeclude having kept ones maiden name; it would be rather old-fashioned to think of it as meaning 'the wife of Mr X' (in which case the unhanged name might have appeared illogical)

However, the fact that she has chosen to kept her maiden name might indicate she is eager to assert her independence, in which case, she might herself prefer to use 'Ms' — on the basis that it is no-ones business but her own whether she is married or not.

Personally, in a modern business environment, I feel that 'Ms' is generally most appropriate.

You might also wish to consider the fact that in EN, people don't usually tend to us either Mr or Ms when signing off a letter; normally, christian name or initials + surname are quite enough; it might even be considered a point for sexual equality, since after all, what difference should it make if the writer is male or female?

Signing oneself 'Mrs X' is likely perhaps these days to give the letter a 'cosy' feel, which might or might not be appropriate in your register. For example, if someone were replying to an enquiry about a knitting pattern, it might be friendly to sign off as 'Mrs Purl'; such familiarity might however be quite out of place if she was the director of a steelworks writing to sack an employee, in which case S. S. Steel might be more suitable!

The only exception to this might perhaps be if the writer has a christian name that is not obviously a woman's or man's name; in this case, it might be kind to the reader to let them know, simply to avoid them any embarrassment should they have to ring and ask for the person.

Tony M
France
Local time: 01:27
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 309
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Demi Ebrite
2 mins
  -> Thanks, Demi!

agree  Colin Rowe: You make some interesting points, particularly your last point (in which case "Ms." in brackets, perhaps, following the name) - although the names causing confusion these days may well be Muslim or Hindu rather than "Christian".
11 mins
  -> Thnaks, Colin! Yes, indeed... I was trying to avoid any risk of discrimination, but that is what I was thinking of too.

agree  AllegroTrans: ..or neither...
13 mins
  -> Thanks, C! Yes, indeed, as Colin said, and I did raise at the end of my rather lengthy answer

agree  kmtext: I have a couple of colleagues who have retained their maiden names, but as far as I know they just sign their names without any title.
45 mins
  -> Thanks, KM! Yes, I think at the actual signing-off point, it is pretty unusual to use any sort of title, other than professional ones, of course.

agree  Charles Davis: This covers the bases, I'd say. I think this question of how you literally sign is a red herring here; the question is how you want your name to appear. There could be one of those "Dr/Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms" boxes to fill in.
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Charles! Indeed...

agree  James A. Walsh
3 hrs
  -> Thanks, James!

agree  katsy
5 hrs
  -> Thanks, Katsy!

agree  Anna Herbst: It is most definitely an individual choice.
14 hrs
  -> Thanks, Anna!

agree  Ashutosh Mitra
21 hrs
  -> Thanks, Ashutosh!

agree  Veronika McLaren: Very impressive points! I kept addressing a German client with the first name of "Jan" as Frau, thinking of Jan/Janet or Janice until he told me he was a man...
22 hrs
  -> Thanks, Veronika! Oh yes, me too! I have a Swiss client called Jocelyne, and stupidly associated it with the EN lady's name 'Jocelyn'; he was very nice about it!
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