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I also agree that it does not necessarily relate to monsters. However, if you appreciate the context of the Askers question, and read the subsequent phrase, you will see that on this occasion it does relate to monsters.
caresser des chimères ne fait pas du tout penser au monstre. C'est seulement avoir en tête des rêves qu'on sait irréalisables et ne pas vouloir les abandonner.
"The connection between a "chimera" and a "catastrophe" is also well known" - well, that's for sure not the case in French. A dragon, a vampire, a werewuf, a gorgona, a hydra, all these are imaginary monsters that are primarily monsters - dangerous creatures; when one appears in a story, the fact they are imaginary is secondary, they represent danger in one form or another. A chimera, as used figuratively in French is firstly an imaginary creature, something not real, NOT a messenger of doom. (the only danger implied is the one of wasting your time) "Le paradoxe de la chimère Pourtant paradoxalement, ce monstre hideux et redouté est devenu le symbole de l'irréalisable, de l'impossible, et le rêve souhaité mais hors d'atteinte que pour nous sont les chimères. "Quelles sont douces à caresser ces chimères ! Nous ne pouvons y résister. Mais, ce faisant, notre main n'effleure que l'absence et le vide. Ce pourquoi sans doute, Banville a écrit : Rien ne nous attire mieux que les sourires décevant de nos chimères". [http://pages.videotron.com/chimere/bestiaire/chimere.html]
For what it is worth, I think that Wolf's ideas and contribution (unleash the beast) which unfortunately is not an officially suggested translation is EXCELLENT
On the one hand, it has the idea of letting go of all your inhibitions and realising your dreams (perhaps the more sordid ones albeit)
But it also fits in well with the second idea which, for the asker, is important. Catastrophe !!!
Unleashing has the idea of 'no longer under control' and the beast as already said represents what one could call the darker side of human nature
It is surely about as close as anyone could get to what the asker wants
I think it is obvious what the reference being made is here. How the Asker chooses to translate this will be up to her. However, there were many words that could have been used such as "dream" "illusion" "fantasy", but they were not ultimately used. The connection between a "chimera" and a "catastrophe" is also well known. It would be quite a coincidence if these two terms had been put together in any other way.
I think the déclenche des catastrophes segment is a sufficient indication that the usual meaning of chasing rainbows or unrealistic dreams/ambitions does not work here; the FR is not neutral and so the translation shouldn't be either.
But I agree with you about the dangers of rewriting, or of anticipating the rest of the text in one sentence. It is very tempting for translators to be overly "creative" in this kind of situation. Maybe I've crossed the line with my answer :-) but it's up to the Asker to decide now.
For sure, just pulling definitions from dictionaries is not a good practice. If for no other reasons, for the fact that a word on its own can often have several meanings (not all mentioned in all dictionaries, just to make it more "interesting") - so context is always crucial; or even trickier, a word can be part of an expression which gives it a totally new twist, and if you miss that you're gone in some weird direction. But here you have an expression that on its own is neutral (only to say someone is indulging in unrealistic ideas), so the translation of that expression should stay neutral, and the sinister tone of the whole story should emerge from the text as a whole. I see no need to adapt the translation of "caresser des chimères", especially considering that there is a perfectly usable one-fit-all translation (well, with variants, but all saying basically the same). There’s also the question of knowing at which point you start rewriting a story instead of translating it, but better not start on that one...
We're talking past each other here; I agree entirely with you as far as the literal meaning of the expression is concerned, but as you well know, context is everything in translation, otherwise we could all pull definitions out of our dictionaries and there would be no need for this site. The point is to find a suitable translation for the expression as it used in a specific context.
The context here (as I understand it, and I may of course be wrong) is of the dysfunction between an individual and society, of pressures to conform and how it can drive a person over the edge to the point where they commit murder; it has little or nothing to do with pursuing one's dreams or ambitions and rather with nurturing what are perceived by society as dangerous illusions - and the crux of the story may very well be that the illusory is in fact real and "reality" as dictated by society is the real illusion; the individual is not allowed to be himself, and this restrictive oppression leads to disaster (death).
Granted, that's inferring a lot from the little context provided, but well :-)
the expression "caresser des chimères" in itself is only about impossible dreams. The whole story in the ST hasn't got a happy ending, but that doesn't change the meaning of "caresser des chimères". In some other stories, these impossible dreams may lead to some very positive results: "1. caresser (Figuré) Se complaire dans un travail, dans une pensée. Dire qu'il y a des années que je caresse cette chimère, que je vis avec cette idée folle: mon journal à moi […]. Je l'ai réalisé, ce rêve impossible, je le tiens, l'oiseau bleu, entre mes doigts. Le Justicier. C'est un journal de finance. — (Victor Méric, Les compagnons de l'Escopette, 1930, p.171)" [http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/caresser]" So, it you twist the meaning of "caresser des chimères" to fit this example, it should be "being persistent with your ideas until they are realised". To go back to the example of the driver, a driver is just a driver, weather he's rushing someone to a hospital or getting away from a hold-up; a dreamer of impossible dreams is just that, it's the rest of the story that gives it a sinister or optimistic twist.
Daryo, at face value you are right, but as Lara says, the context gives a sinister meaning to chimera, especially as the mythical character itself is referred to earlier in the script.
So, there is a definite sense of impending disaster, in that the patient is warned to abandon his fantasy and rejoin the "real" world, lest something bad happens. It's all very allegorical.
What counts is the imaginary part, that is true. However, if you read the context of the askers question, "Qui caresse des chimères... déclenche des catastrophes", how can you say "no connotation whatsoever of possible consequences of any kind: beneficial, detrimental, evil, catastrophic or whatever." ??
A chimera is an imaginary monster. What counts is the "imaginary" part - "Caresser des chimères" is about impossible dreams - no connotation whatsoever of possible consequences of any kind: beneficial, detrimental, evil, catastrophic or whatever. The "monster" part is relevant only in the way that a chimera is a mythical monster - there's no chances you're ever going to meet one (you can only keep dreaming). Just because it's used in a story where it leads to murder, it doesn't mean the expression in itself has any connection with the consequences of impossible dreams - it simply doesn't imply any. Just because there’s a driver mentioned in a story about rushing to hospital or robbing a bank doesn’t mean every driver is a Good Samaritan or a bank robber.
"La symbolique de la chimère est vaste et son nom a été repris pour désigner, dans un sens étendu, toutes les créatures composites possédant les attributs de plusieurs animaux ainsi que les rêves ou les fantasmes et les utopies impossibles." [http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimère_(mythologie)]
Exactly - it is the idea of the "chimera" that is important here, not only the associated idea of dreams and illusions - the chimera has a specific meaning and tells a specific story. i.e. "according to Greek mythology, a monstrous fire-breathing female creature of Lycia in Asia Minor, composed of the parts of three animals: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(mythology Nothing to do with dreamy images of candy floss, pretty colourful images and fun and games.//The idea is a dream or fantasy, but "chimera" as opposed to dream has been used for a reason. This can be seen by the second part of the phrase. However, that's just my take on it.
I agree with Carol up to a point, but that is an important part of the context. I always thought that the idea of the Chimera is that a horror can be unleashed from an innocent dream. I think the term "chimera" is related to "unleash" in this sense. i.e. the choice of the first word is dependent on the rest of the phrase.
This word would be appropriate if you went with "chimera" as dream, illusion, fantasy etc do not actually contain the full meaning of "chimera",which is represented by a type of beast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(mythology))- "unleash the beast" is a common phrase in English.
please; what is the theme of the play/script, when is it set, who is the audience (of the French and English versions), what catastrophes are being alluded to? And like Lara asked, who is speaking to whom, and why?
Just translate it literally maybe - chimera is the same thing in English, with all the history and legend behind it. Try: "Cherish your chimera and you will unleash your worst disaster/fear"
c'est une ligne de dialogue de scénario. Il est difficile de donner un contexte car ça fait partie d'une ambiance.
Dialogue : "vous avez oublié notre dernière leçon ? Qui caresse des chimères... déclenche des catastrophes". Mais il y a au préalable une référence aux Chimères, monstres antiques, donc il faut traduire "caresser des chimères" au sens propre et figuré... Merci de votre aide !
Explanation: The dictionary says 'to dream of doing something' but honestly, if you want us all to use our imagination, then we need a bit more context. Does our effort have to rime with the other lines for instance. In that case, you would also have to send your translation so far
Explanation: As you have said that you would like the word chimera to appear. In fact I'd say that this is quite 'soutenu' - both the caresser (entretenir avec complaisance cf CNTRL) and the chimère. I agree that it means 'chasing rainbows', but I have tried to word it in a more formal fashion "He/those who indulges/indulge in chimera engenders/engender catastrophe"
katsy Local time: 00:19 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 15
