la copie n'est pas suffisante

English translation: there is sufficient written work

22:28 Mar 8, 2012

French to English translations [PRO]
Education / Pedagogy / secondary education

French term or phrase: la copie n'est pas suffisante

Hello all,

This shows up in the comments section of a high school transcript I am translating from English to French. I know copie can mean essay, but since it is for a math class I was wondering if there was another meaning I should be looking for (copying down notes? a blank sheet of paper?), and also if it was referring to one single "copie" or the general idea of "la copie."

Context:

Philosophie:
Une absence non justifiée à un devoir sur table qui rend impossible d'évaluer le niveau réel de ce trimestre.

Mathématique:
Plus aucun travail, personnel ou en cours. La copie n'est pas suffisante !...

Thanks!

Roberta Beyer KudoZ activity Questions: 239 (2 open) (1 without valid answers) (23 closed without grading) Answers: 84 United States
Local time: 14:08

English translation:there is sufficient written work

Explanation:
to evaluate progress.

I think I've heard this before from a French teacher friend who complained about being unable to grade students who skipped classes and produced no work generally. I think this probably works for US EN as well as UK.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 mins (2012-03-08 22:34:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

sorry "insufficient written work"

Selected response from:

Alison Sparks (X)
Local time: 21:08

Grading comment

Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +2

there is sufficient written work

Alison Sparks (X)

4 +1

You are asked to do more than copy

katsy

4 -1

term paper unsatisfactory

Clarissa Hull

3 -1

it isn't just about exams

Sheila Wilson

Answers

5 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

there is sufficient written work

Alison Sparks (X)
Local time: 21:08
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Hal D'Arpini: "Copie" refers to written work.

34 mins

-> thanks

agree

Lara Barnett

1 hr

-> thanks

agree

Ingeborg Gowans (X): yes, this is really the meaning here imho

1 hr

-> thanks

agree

Carol Osborne

10 hrs

-> thanks

neutral

Clarissa Hull: Sufficient?

16 hrs

-> I meant INsufficient as added in my note

neutral

katsy: agree with Clarissa// sorry, was too elliptic + went too fast; understood you meant insufficient; was questioning it as a term to define quality of work, (like "résultats insuffisants") + in fact you didn't suggest that - apologies!

18 hrs

-> I meant INsufficient as added in my note

disagree

Neil Coffey: In the right context, this phrase could mean "This script/piece of written work is unsatisfactory". But in this particular context, I think they *probably* intended katsy's interpretation.

1 day 19 hrs

disagree

Myriam Dupouy: I'm afraid the context shows it has nothing to do with skipped classes (although you're right, it's a frequent problem!). Here there is no possible doubt because of the first part of the sentence: it means "simply writing lessons down is just not enough".

2 days 11 hrs

13 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

it isn't just about exams

Explanation:
That might be a little too free a translation for your context.

I know as an EFL trainer in France that "la copie" can refer to exam papers and I believe that fits the context i.e. you may be able to pass an exam simply by remembering some facts, but if you don't work you'll never understand the subject sufficiently to apply it.

Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 20:08
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 107

16 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

term paper unsatisfactory

Explanation:
My son did all his secondary schooling in France. He tells me that "copie" is a paper filled in during school hours or written at home and then turned in for assessment.

Le Petit Robert gives an example: "ramasser les copies après une épreuve"

Clarissa Hull
Switzerland
Local time: 21:08
Works in field
Native speaker of:

German,

English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

neutral

Neil Coffey: I think out of context you could interpret it this way. *But* it's prefixed with a comment that the pupil has done NO work, so I think katsy could be right that they intended to refer litterally to "copying things out" in this case.

1 day 2 hrs

-> No "interpreting" nor "copying". "Copie" is written work assessed during term, be it written in class or at home. Moreover it counts as a grade for the final report. I have in on authority from a lycée teacher.

disagree

Myriam Dupouy: I am really sorry Clarissa, but with the given context, Neil and Katsy are right. "Copie" here really isn't "term paper". Wouldn't mean anything in this particular context.//It is, but not in this particular context. (I'm a teacher, Clarissa).

1 day 19 hrs

-> Several lycée students and teachers have confirmed that the term "copie" is the actual paper filled in and submitted by students for term assessment (also called "contrôle" or "devoir"), at least in Haute-Savoie.

neutral

katsy: nobody is disputing that 'copie' means written work as you describe; I just think that in this context, it is not what is meant; I teach in a French lycée, quite used both to 'copies' and to 'bulletins' (and to mere copying)// et pourtant!

1 day 21 hrs

-> Your suggested answer in a "bulletin trimestriel"? Would sound weird, IMHO

18 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

You are asked to do more than copy

Explanation:
As a teacher myself, I find the phrasing strange.... first the teacher says there is no work, then refers to a single paper (la copie).....
Sooo ..... I very much suspect (s)he is saying that it is not enough to copy (off someone else., out of a book).....

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2012-03-09 17:30:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I may have been a little "elliptic" here. "Copie" - e;g. "travail de copie", simply means copying - not necessarily cheating, just copying.....

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days11 hrs (2012-03-11 09:28:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

IN response to some of the discussion on the page....
First of all, in the first meaning of "copie" is the faithful reproduction of sth written cf http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/copie
Second, I do totally agree that the teacher's phrase is open to interpretation.
However, NO term's work (I speak as a teacher in a lycée) is dependent on ONE 'copie' (paper) - and this is why the sentence is very strange if 'paper' is what is referred to. All the more so, as you may note that the philosophy teacher talks about the 'devoir surveillé' which would be equivalent to UK's internal school exams.
Thirdly, - and this is just my gut feeling (I have been writing school reports for French students for over 30 years!) - the teacher may have chosen this phrasing, as I say originally, to avoid saying sth he/she can't prove, i.e., that the student is copying off someone else - for which he/she should have used the term "copiage". At least "copie" laisee planer le doute.
And again I repeat - c'est un simple travail de copie - means... all this work involves is copying....
sorry to have been so verbose, and for any repetitions!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days11 hrs (2012-03-11 09:29:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

oops, typo above "LAISSE planer le doute" of course

katsy
Local time: 21:08
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 127

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Neil Coffey: It's maybe more idiomatic to say e.g. "It's no good just copying things out!", but I think this is probably what they intended.

1 day 30 mins

-> Thanks Neil, I think you're right - maybe better to be more idiomatic. I was a bit 'obnubilée' by the idea of leaving the 'copying' ambiguous, and not to be interpreted (necessarily) as an accusation of cheating

disagree

Clarissa Hull: "Copie"does not mean "copy" in this context. Beware of "false friends".

1 day 6 hrs

-> Clarissa, please read note above...

agree

Myriam Dupouy: That's it! We do write this kind of thing all the time in our "bulletins". I have plenty of pupils who think writing a lesson down means the "job" is done... (not to mention the ones who write nothing!)

1 day 17 hrs

-> thanks Myriam!

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la copie n'est pas suffisante

English translation: there is sufficient written work

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