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Explanation: Simon Bolivar and the Original ... - Cuba-Venezuela Solidarity Clubs solidarityclubs.net/files/.../Simon%20Bolivar%20and%20Venezuela.p... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View a means to greater riches (the creole bourgeoisie). Over time the interests of the oligarchy in the mother country and the economic elite in the colonies mature ... Marxism & the 'Bolivarian Revolution' - Venezuela & the Left www.bolshevik.org/1917/no30/no30-Venezuela.html Hugo Chávez, who was first elected president of Venezuela in December 1998 ... of “socialism” reflects a distance from the ruling bourgeois oligarchy that allows ... [PDF] Part Four bibliotecavirtual.clacso.org.ar/ar/libros/dussel/iglesia21/cap10.pdf File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View The landholding Creole oligarchy, rarely creatively bourgeois, received, ..... were later augmented to include Bolivia, Colombia, Ecuador, and Venezuela. ... Is Chavez's project 'socialism from above'? | Direct Action directaction.org.au › Issue 13: July 2009 The coup was an attempt to stop the Chavez leadership taking Venezuela's state oil .... “We have no plan to eliminate the oligarchy, Venezuela's bourgeoisie”. ... What kind of party is the United Socialist Party of Venezuela? (PR7) www.permanentrevolution.net/entry/1969 The last half year has seen six million people in Venezuela join the PSUV. In a debate ... “We have no plan to eliminate the oligarchy, Venezuela's bourgeoisie. ... MEXICO www.tdkp.org/US/US-2/mexico_2.htm The difference between a handful of bourgeois and the masses of exploited and ... (Cemex): They hold 60 of the shares of the Venezuelan company Venclomos, ..... the struggles between the Creole bourgeoisie and the financial oligarchy. ...
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ref. regarding Cuba this time
Cuban cinema - Google Books Result books.google.com/books?isbn=0816634246...Michael Chanan - 2004 - History - 538 pages But precisely because Cuba was still under colonial rule, the creole bourgeoisie was unable to constitute itself as a fully fledged national oligarchy; ...
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I may not be right with "creole", but I did study Latin American History as part of my language degree, so am not a total ignoramus here:)
Saludos
Criollo is my vote:)
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Venezuela - Population Venezuela
Three races contributed significantly to the composition of the Venezuelan population: whites, Africans, and Indians. The Indians of the region belonged to a number of distinct tribes. Those who devoted themselves to agriculture and fishing belonged mainly to the Arawak, Ajaguan, Cumanagoto, Ayaman, and other Carib tribes. The Guajiro lived, as they still do today, in the area that became the state of Zulia. The Timoto-Cuica lived in the states of Táchira, Mérida, Trujillo, and Lara. The Caquetío, who prevailed in the area of present-day Falcón state, developed probably the highest cultural state of civilization of all the indigenous groups. A number of tribes also lived, as the Guajiro still do, in the Amazon jungle. Compared with other Latin American countries, however, Venezuela never had a large Indian population. After discovery by Spain, this population diminished still further, mainly because the natives lacked immunity to the many diseases brought to the New World from Europe. In addition, Indians and Spanish intermarried; the product of this union, the mestizo, often opted for or was forced into assuming Spanish customs and religion. Fewer than 150,000 Indians were counted in the 1981 census, and, of these, over a third were made up by the Guajiro, who, though distinctive, were mostly Roman Catholic, wore their own version of Western-style clothing, and traded openly with other Venezuelans and Colombians.
During the colonial period, white Venezuelans immigrated mostly from Spain. Most blacks were brought from Africa as slaves to replace the large numbers of Indians who died from diseases and other consequences of the conquest. The African slaves labored in the hot, equatorial coastal plantations. Although miscegenation was widespread, it did not diminish the importance of color and social origin. In colonial society, peninsulares (those born in Spain) enjoyed the greatest prestige and power. Criollos (those born in America of Spanish parentage) occupied a subordinate position. Mestizos, blacks, and Indians made up the large lower end of the social hierarchy. Even at these lower levels, those who could somehow demonstrate a measure of white ancestry enhanced their chances of avoiding a life of penury.
Although the criollos resented the peninsulares, they did not identify or empathize with the lower strata. Instead, they remained deeply aware of the potential for trouble from the large mass below them and employed a variety of means to keep the nonwhite peoples at a safe distance. Despite their sometimes disreputable personal backgrounds, peninsulares boasted that they had pure white pedigrees. Circumstances rendered the ancestry of some criollos more questionable, and even the wealthiest were conscious of race mixture and anxious to dispel any doubts as to their parentage by remaining as separate from the nonwhite and mulatto population as possible. Perceptions of race, however, evolved somewhat over time in response to changing social, political, and even cultural interests.
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DRAE: criollo, lla. (Del port. crioulo, y este de criar). 1. adj. Dicho de un hijo y, en general, de un descendiente de padres europeos: Nacido en los antiguos territorios españoles de América y en algunas colonias europeas de dicho continente. U. t. c. s. 2. adj. Se decía de la persona de raza negra nacida en tales territorios, por oposición a la que había sido llevada de África como esclava. U. t. c. s. 3. adj. Dicho de una persona: Nacida en un país hispanoamericano, para resaltar que posee las cualidades estimadas como características de aquel país. U. t. c. s. 4. adj. Autóctono, propio, distintivo de un país hispanoamericano. 5. adj. Peculiar, propio de Hispanoamérica. 6. adj. Se dice de los idiomas que han surgido en comunidades precisadas a convivir con otras comunidades de lengua diversa y que están constituidos por elementos procedentes de ambas lenguas. Se aplica especialmente a los idiomas que han formado, sobre base española, francesa, inglesa, holandesa o portuguesa, las comunidades africanas o indígenas de ciertos territorios originariamente coloniales. 7. f. Cierta canción y danza popular cubana, en compás de seis por ocho. a la ~. 1. loc. adv. A la manera criolla. 2. loc. adv. Am. Llanamente, sin etiqueta. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/creole Cre•ole [kree-ohl] Show IPA noun 1. a person born in the West Indies or Spanish America but of European, usually Spanish, ancestry. 2. a person born in Louisiana but of usually French ancestry. 3. ( sometimes lowercase ) a person of mixed black and European, especially French or Spanish, ancestry who speaks a creolized form of French or Spanish. 4. ( usually lowercase ) a creolized language; a pidgin that has become the native language of a speech community. Compare pidgin. 5. the creolized French language of the descendants of the original settlers of Louisiana. Compare Cajun.
criollo [kriːˈəʊləʊ (Spanish) ˈkrjoʎo] n pl -los [-ləʊz (Spanish) -ʎos] 1. (Social Science / Peoples) a native or inhabitant of Latin America of European descent, esp of Spanish descent 2. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Breeds) a. any of various South American breeds of domestic animal b. (as modifier) a criollo pony 3. (Cookery) a high-quality variety of cocoa adj (Social Science / Peoples) (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Breeds) of, relating to, or characteristic of a criollo or criollos [Spanish: native; see CREOLE]
Liz, I think you are right to defend your point of view, which clearly was persuasive to colleagues by a pretty wide margin - the 'people's choice'. My point related only to process. Please accept my good wishes and 'buen finde'! Saludos - Pablo
Chávez expresó desde el cambio de régimen de prestaciones sociales en 1997 hasta la fecha a los trabajadores se les “robó a futuro una cifra que se aproxima a 100 mil millones de dólares”. En este sentido, acusó a la burguesía venezolana de expropiarle esos recursos a los trabajadores. “Eso lo hicieron los adecos y los copeyanos. Eso lo hizo la cuarta República. Saquearon al pueblo, robaron a los trabajadores para cumplir con un mandato del Fondo Monetario Internacional, del imperialismo internacional y de la burguesía criolla”, expresó. Chavez use of "criolla" is clearly not complimentary. So I would translate "burguesia criolla" as "creole bourgeoise". and whichever way you look at it, historians, writers, you name it, have all used "creole" and even "criollo" in texts relating to Venezuela. This has nothing to do with me not being from Venezuela, but rather me as a translator, and researcher, and nay historian.
Not returning to the 'burguesía criolla' discussion, which I've assumed was complete, but rather to make a more general translation point: Seems to me there is pretty limited value in supporting a proposed translation with examples drawn from texts which are themselves translations - particularly when they are of suspect quality. Case in point, the text uploaded earlier today from venezuelatoday.org, beginning "He [Chavez] affirmed, ‘’the enemies are supported by imperialism..." This particular text contains such solecisms as "we have to trample the rests of the fourth republic" ('los restos' should have been translated as 'the remnants'); "the hegemony of the Bolivarian socialism" (which should read simply 'the hegemony of Bolivarian socialism'), and "He asked for the ‘’chavismo’’ to carry out a campaign..." (which should read 'He urged 'Chavismo' [or 'Chavistas'] to carry out a campaign...'), among others. As a translator, why would I rely on a substandard translation for terminological guidance?
President Chavez also said that independent of the US' internal issues, "this worries us. Right here, right now, I am putting it out there...he [Obama] threw a stone at me...multiple stones." "I have to complain and make it public, because afterwards they'll say that Chavez began to throw stones, that he likes to fight with the whole world...as always, the creole bourgeoisie, the owners of the media, want to present me as if Chavez had attacked, was disrespectful, the stone-thrower, the violent one," he explained.
He [Chavez] affirmed, ‘’the enemies are supported by imperialism and the ‘’creole’’ bourgeoisie. He asked for the ‘’chavismo’’ to carry out a campaign with ’’frenetic activity and agitation on every day because we have to trample the rests of the fourth republic and consolidate the hegemony of the Bolivarian socialism’’.
I still don't think that this makes reference to their European origin. The bourgeoisie are parasites in that they live off the labour of the people, the pueblo, in a way similar to some of the arguments currently being made about the 1% and the 99%.
“No hay pacto aquí, ya hubo pacto en 200 años y todos los pactos fueron pérdida para el pueblo, todos los pactos fueron una traición y yo no llegué para traicionar al pueblo venezolano”, insistió “No tenemos ni tendremos planes para hacer acuerdos ni pactos de ningún tipo con la burguesía parásita de Venezuela, no hay acuerdo posible con esa burguesía. O ellos o nosotros, o ellos o el pueblo, no hay pacto aquí, ya hubo pacto en 200 años y todos los pactos fueron pérdida para el pueblo, todos los pactos fueron una traición y yo no llegué para traicionar al pueblo venezolano. Prefiero la muerte lo juro una y otra vez”. Así lo enfatizó el presidente de la república Hugo Chávez en referencia a la escalada de rumores desestabilizadores originados luego de la intervención del Banco Federal propiedad del empresario Nelsón Mezerhane, realizada el pasado 14 de junio.
I missed the last bits of this discussion, but thought I would chime in to support Pablo Julián entirely in his interpretation. (While I disagree that 'national' has positive or negative connotations in this context) I, too, am completely comfortable with 'domestic' or 'local' for this translation, and I believe that this was Chavez's intended meaning.
I think that we have already explained our point of views. All I can add is that, in my opinion, if an experienced speaker as Chavez didn't want to remind his audience about the economical and historical connotations related to the term "criollo" he would have chosen a term like "domestic" or "local" from the beginning. Therefore, I think that this should be an important aspect to take into account when translating this source term. Saludos.
The term is being used by Chavez in a way that Venezuelans understand, but not in its strictly literal sense. The literal translation 'creole' has been used by English-speaker writers in reference to this local oligarchy, but a more dynamic equivalent (see Eugene Nida on dynamic equivalence) would not use the term in English, since it has other connotations. Hence my *respectable* suggestion to avoid it entirely.
Careful and responsible writers and translators do their best to use language that readers understand. The point of a text is to communicate. This would be especially true in translating Chavez, who speaks to the masses. The translator should convey the same impact that his speech had for Venezuelans.
'that's their problem' Indeed it is the reader's problem, because as a translator I can only translate as I see fit, and as I comprehend the text. I cannot read Chavez' mind, but based on my linguistic, historical, and research expertise, "criollo or creole" is what I agree with, and so do others might I add. Unfortuntely I am unable to contact the horse's mouth on this particular problem, otherwise I would, as I have researched this word to exhaustion, hence my conclusions.
A last entry (at least on my part). Yes, Liz, clearly we disagree on this. And in my view, the phrase 'that is their problem' is an odd one for a translator. It's precisely OUR problem to render a text in a way that our likely audience will understand. If what you want to convey is the 'partly foreign origin' of the group Chávez is inveighing against, then the word 'creole' to most English speakers - especially in the US - doesn't really do that, rather it has connotations of racial mixture. (In any case, I don't think Chávez is making any sort of statement of ethnic/racial origins when he uses the term. And... sólo preguntando... El mismo Chávez, ¿es de origen puramente venezolano?) Well, this has been interesting, I'll let someone else have the last word. Saludos a todos.
Also, if English speakers don't know the meaning of "criollo/creole" then that is their problem, or lack of awareness not the translator's or the historian's. These words are used both in Spanish and English and so they should be used to reflect the original source text. Saludos!
Ignore history? Of course not. My caution is vs leaning on 19th century sources, incl. Marx, as support for a translation of political discourse from 2010. In summary: 'creole' brings interference from the Louisiana context, esp. for US readers; 'criollo' doesn't convey enough meaning to most English speajers; 'national' is too positive in its connotations. We have to remember, the key aspect of the speech is that it is political invective, and that the opprobrium against the 'burguesía criolla' is not ethnic-racial. IMO best translation for 'criollo' in this context would be 'domestic' or 'local'.
But the criollo are part of the history of Venezuela, which goes back to Spanish colonialisation, and Chavez is referring to this. I don't think we should ignore history.
I think Ion understands the intended nuances of the usage in this case, and explains it well. The term creole as defined in dictionaries does have different connotations in different contexts, for example I've always associated it more with French colonialism.
Reformism or Revolution: 2. Philosophy and science | In Defence of ... www.marxist.com › Books in English › Reformism or Revolution - Block all www.marxist.com results 26 Aug 2008 – The mood of pessimism that afflicts the bourgeoisie and its ...... They were mainly drawn from the ranks of the criollo bourgeoisie (local-born people of ... been brought to Venezuela by exiles of the 1848 revolutions in Europe. .
Pablo Juliá, I respect your opinion, but I don't see at all absurd the idea that Hugo Chavez has used the term "criollo" to remind his audience of the "foreign" origin of this part of Venezuela's society. The fact that "criollo" is used in other contexts with positive or neutral connotations e.g. "mondongo criollo", doesn't mean that it cannot be used in other contexts with a negative intent. In this case, as you mention "the assertion that this group's role has been as a servile 'junior partner' towards foreign corporations" and on top of this, in my opinion, the idea that this bourgeoisie are not totally Venezuelan and have therefore even less right to control the economy of the country. This last part, of course, is not my opinion, it's just my reading of Hugo Chavez's intent in using the term "criollo" instead another more neutral one such as "domestic" or "local". Saludos.
In my opinion it's absurd to think that in 2011 'criollo' is used in Venezuela as a marker of foreign origin or of whiteness. (Of course, in 1711 or 1811 it certainly did mean 'Spaniard born here in the Indies/New World' and thus designated people who were very much European/white.) To dance to a 'vals criollo', to eat 'mondongo criollo' - these are to partake of various aspects of Venezuelan culture, así de simple. And the equation criollo=white is not valid; indeed, the term 'criollo' includes/presupposes some degree of racial mixture (though not to the extent of the French term 'creole'). No, 'criollo' as used in the source text is not a term of racial/ethnic opprobrium, veiled or otherwise. Its opprobrium has to do with political economy: the assertion that this group's role has been as a servile 'junior partner' towards foreign corporations. It's more or less the idea of a group that has not been loyally nationalistic.
I would say that Hugo Chavez has used the term "criollo" knowingly with a clear intent, i.e. to remind his audience about the foreign origin of the bourgeoisie he is criticizing. Therefore, in my opinion is quite important to maintain this term as it is to convey the same meaning.
Creole, as commonly understood in English, is not the translation for criollo in the Venezuelan contect, or at least wasn't - I can't speak personally for beyond the late seventies. Criollo was the term used by English speakers resident in the country until then and it indicated a wealthy, machista society (although not necessarily knowingly used in that retrospective interpretation).
I get the sense that 'criollo' here means something more like 'local' or 'home-grown', which in many cases of course coincides mostly or entirely with people of European descent, but I believe the emphasis on this is misplaced in this case.
Although it looks like "creole" is used in this context, personally, I think it adds other connotations that do not fit here and that could be a bit confusing for the reader. I think that the term "criollo" is more specific to the Spanish speaking countries of South America and sets the people the article refers to apart from the people of French, Spanish, Portuguese... origin from other parts of America.
