unheilvoll

English translation: evil-bringing rights ...

11:25 Jun 3, 2003

German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary

German term or phrase: unheilvoll

Hobbes, philosophy
Um den Naturzustand, in dem der “Krieg eines jeden gegen jeden” herrscht, zu überwinden, gibt es aber für nur einen gangbaren Weg in diesem wichtigen Punkt unterscheidet sich die Lehre von Hobbes von der nachfolgend zu behandelnden Lehre von, nämlich den Verzicht auf die unheilvollen Rechte zugunsten von persönlichem existentiellem Schutz und allgemeiner Sicherheit

Carolyn Fox KudoZ activity Questions: 84 (none open) (1 closed without grading) Answers: 34 United Kingdom
Local time: 08:16

English translation:evil-bringing rights ...

Explanation:
... as I don't like any of the above (apart from possibly "ominous") in a Hobbes/Leviathan context (I knew my second-rate Philosophy degree would come in handy one day).

Hobbes claimed that life is "nasty, brutish, and short" - so we have to cede all our rights (with the exception of the right to self-preservation) to a strong government to save ourselves from the horrible "state of nature" (for our purposes, the crowd at an England football match).

As far as Hobbes was concerned, these "rights" not only included the right to freedom of expression and bad hairstyles but also the right to stab your neighbour or invade Iraq.

Unfortunately, the "unheilvoll" is almost certainly not Hobbes' wording but that of the author.

IMO "unheilvoll" means "nicht heilvoll" in the sense that it does not contribute to the improvement of the human condition. "Useless" or "counterproductive" would be another way of saying it.

Feel free to choose another answer - I just had to get this off my chest.

There's probably also a better word to convey what I'm trying to say.

Selected response from:

TonyTK

Grading comment

Thanks for your detailed reasoning. I agree with what you say although will have to think about the actual word to use.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +3

ominous

Simona de Logu

5 +1

disastrous

Rowan Morrell

4 +2

foreboding

gangels (X)

baneful, direful

Jennifer Hottarek

dangerous

Teresa Reinhardt

ill-fated

Olaf Reibedanz

unregenerate rights

Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.

baleful

Armorel Young

evil-bringing rights ...

TonyTK

Answers

4 mins confidence:

baneful, direful

Explanation:
according to LEO--also fits this context

Reference: http://dict.leo.org

Jennifer Hottarek
Germany
Local time: 09:16
Native speaker of:

German,

English
PRO pts in pair: 76

5 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

disastrous

Explanation:
This one's actually in the Collins dictionary. Should fit well here.

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Note added at 2003-06-03 11:32:06 (GMT)
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Disastrous is also in Leo. Another good option: calamitous.

Rowan Morrell
New Zealand
Local time: 19:16
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in pair: 1459

7 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

ominous

Explanation:
another possibility.

Simona de Logu
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:16
Native speaker of:

English,

German
PRO pts in pair: 148

2 hrs confidence:

evil-bringing rights ...

TonyTK
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in pair: 1094

Grading comment

Thanks for your detailed reasoning. I agree with what you say although will have to think about the actual word to use.

2 hrs confidence:

dangerous

Explanation:
if abused

Teresa Reinhardt
United States
Local time: 00:16
Native speaker of:

German,

English
PRO pts in pair: 4290

3 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

foreboding

Explanation:
Unheilvoll suggests impending doom, IMO,i.e. these rights hold within them the potential for disaster

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Note added at 2003-06-03 22:44:46 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

fateful, maybe

gangels (X)
Local time: 01:16
Native speaker of:

English,

German
PRO pts in pair: 5559

7 hrs confidence:

ill-fated

Explanation:
..., that is the renunciation (or: relinquishment) of such ill-fated rights in favour of...

might also work quite well

Olaf Reibedanz
Colombia
Local time: 02:16
Native speaker of:

German
PRO pts in pair: 902

9 hrs confidence:

unregenerate rights

Explanation:
"Unheilvoll" is elevated speech and needs an elevated counterpart in English, but I wouldn't resort to 17th C. parlance (e.g. baneful).

Tony's right. "Unheilvoll" is the author's choice of words, not Hobbes's. Note that it's not the right to cause harm, as this author implies, but rather, the harmful exercise of so-called 'natural right' or 'right original' which is one of no limitation. Their unchecked exercise, of course, produces "unregenerate evil."

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/hobbes-lev13.html

CHAPTER XIV
. . .

And because the condition of man (as hath been declared in the precedent chapter) is a condition of war of *every one against everyone,* in which case every
one is governed by his own reason, and there is nothing he can make use of that may not be a help unto him in preserving his life against his enemies; it
followeth that in such a condition every man has a right to every thing, even to one another's body. And therefore, as long as this natural right of every man
to every thing endureth, there can be no security to any man, how strong or wise soever he be, of living out the time which nature ordinarily alloweth men to
live. And consequently it is a precept, or general rule of reason: that every man ought to endeavour peace, as far as he has hope of obtaining it; and when he
cannot obtain it, that he may seek and use all helps and advantages of war. The first branch of which rule containeth the first and fundamental law of nature,
which is: to seek peace and follow it. The second, the sum of the right of nature, which is: by all means we can to defend ourselves.

From this fundamental law of nature, by which men are commanded to endeavour peace, is derived this second law: that a man be willing, when others are
so too, as far forth as for peace and defence of himself he shall think it necessary, to lay down this right to all things; and be contented with so much liberty
against other men as he would allow other men against himself. For as long as every man holdeth this right, of doing anything he liketh; so long are all men
in the condition of war.

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Note added at 2003-06-03 20:44:04 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Incidentally, you needn\'t say \"renounce\" which could produce three successive \"r\" phonemes, but rather, possibly \"lay down\" which Hobbes himself uses.

Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.
United States
Local time: 03:16
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in pair: 986

10 hrs confidence:

baleful

Explanation:
is I suspect what Jennifer intended with her original suggestion - it seems to fit quite well here

Armorel Young
Local time: 08:16
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 4700

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English translation: evil-bringing rights ...

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