façade or facade

11:57 May 2, 2011
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Answer found elsewhere

English language (monolingual) [Non-PRO]
Law/Patents - Government / Politics
English term or phrase: façade or facade
Should I use "façade constitution" or "facade constitution". In fact the sentence itself doesn't really matter and the question is: "façade" or "facade"?

I can see examples of both on the web and the dictionaries don't add much.

Merriam-Webster says they are variants and the pronunciation is the same.

Dictionary.com: fa·cade
   [fuh-sahd, fa-]
–noun
1.
Architecture .
a.
the front of a building, especially an imposing or decorative one.
b.
any side of a building facing a public way or space and finished accordingly.
2.
a superficial appearance or illusion of something: They managed somehow to maintain a facade of wealth.

Collins uses façade.

I imagine this has to do with the letters in the English alphabet and also keyboard options but I wonder if one term is preferred in the US and the other in the UK.

TIA for any suggestions.
jacana54 (X)
Uruguay


SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
4 +8with the cedilla
Paul Lambert
5 +2Either
B D Finch


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +8
with the cedilla


Explanation:
If you can swing it, then use "façade" as it is a loan word and that is the proper spelling.

You will see "facade" and it is widely understood. Many English-language typewriters did not have the cedilla.

By the way, from my experience, Merriam-Webster seems to think that just about anything goes. I summarily reject any reference to Merriam Webster in substantiating claims to English-language accuracy.

Paul Lambert
Sweden
Local time: 21:19
Does not meet criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, Paul! :-)


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jack Doughty
15 mins
  -> Thanks

agree  Jenni Lukac (X): If it's possible, but don't hope for too much. The letter "c" in my last name should have a Czech "soft mark", but I've given up trying to use it...A cedilla should be easier though. In any case "facade" is common and accepted.
31 mins
  -> Thanks

agree  Marcela Dutra: The Oxford dict. gives "façade" as its first choice and in brackets "also facade", so I too would go with the cedilla spelling
36 mins
  -> Thanks. And yes, I have more faith in Oxford.

agree  jccantrell: Although you almost never see it this way in the USA, I would tend to use the diacritical mark, too. --XX-- Yeah, just like the metric system. :)
2 hrs
  -> Thanks. That's interesting. I wonder if that in the USA typewriters did not take other languages into account. Perhaps now that computers and Unicode are used, the convention of using diacritical marks will come back to the USA as well. We'll see.

agree  eski
4 hrs
  -> Thank you

neutral  B D Finch: I am on the side of those who think dictionaries should reflect actual usage (with a decent delay to make sure the new usage really has been generally adopted) rather than dictate it.// There was no highly literate golden age.
4 hrs
  -> Thank you. Granted, that is one defensible approach, and frankly I would be with you if society were becoming more literate in our time. I just wonder what a few more years of Jerry Springer or Jeremy Kyle will do to influence future editions.

neutral  Sheila Wilson: My Concise Oxford (11th Ed, 2004) only gives facade, originating from the French word façade
5 hrs
  -> Thank you.

agree  Polangmar
5 hrs
  -> Thank you

agree  AllegroTrans: prefereable but not mandatory; EN countries are completely indolent about accent marks
10 hrs
  -> Thank you

agree  Thuy-PTT (X)
1 day 21 hrs
  -> Thank you
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Either


Explanation:
Ask your client which they prefer. My Collins dictionary shows the version with the cedilla first and without as the variant, while my New Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Editors only shows the cedilla version in square brackets as the French source word.

My personal preference is to write it without the cedilla, because this is a word that has long been fully integrated into English and I find the use of the cedilla on a naturalised English word twee/pretentious. Clearly, not everybody agrees.


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Note added at 1 hr (2011-05-02 13:40:51 GMT)
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The V&A takes my contention that both versions are acceptable to ludicrous extremes:
"Aston Webb Facade[without] Cleaning
In 2010, the beautiful 1909 Aston Webb stone façade[with] and the 1874 terracotta and brick façade of the Henry Cole Wing were cleaned, conserved and repaired to their former glory."
http://www.vam.ac.uk/futureplan/completed/Aston Webb Facade ...

Whatever you do, don't follow their example of alternating between the two!

The Fitzwilliam Museum in Cambridge seems to have opted for modern (anglicised) spelling:

"This photograph shows that the facade of the tomb consists of a flat rock face, above which is some stonework. This stonework is ancient for the most part, ..."
www.fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk/tt99/architecture/super.html -

"The MSc/Diploma course in Facade Engineering at the University of Bath is ... The course in Facade Engineering is concerned with all aspects of ..."
www.bath.ac.uk/ace/uploads/facade/prospect.pdf


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-05-02 13:45:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

More V&A indecision:
"Sir Paul Pindar's house facade in the new daylit gallery (Free talks & tours)."
www.vam.ac.uk/whatson/event/708/sir-p...

"The façade of Sir Paul Pindar's house is one of the largest objects in the Museum, and ..."
www.vam.ac.uk/collections/periods_sty..

B D Finch
France
Local time: 21:19
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 18
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, B D!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Paul Lambert: Without arguing necessarily, I don't like naturalised spelling that contradicts normal orthography. "Facade", as written without the cedilla suggests it sounds like "fackayed" (almost rude, actually)
1 hr
  -> English is full of awkward spellings; another doesn't seem to matter too much. The question really is what is accepted common usage by literate people and institutions.

agree  Arabic & More
1 hr
  -> Thanks Amel.

agree  Sheila Wilson: wholeheartedly. Whatever it was, it is now an English word complete with idiosyncratic spelling // :-)
3 hrs
  -> Thanks Sheila. If we spelt it fassard, then we should also change a few other words: enuf, thats sluytly fruytenning!
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