Тъхянь-дэ

English translation: Tian-de

11:40 Mar 11, 2011

Russian to English translations [PRO]
History

Russian term or phrase: Тъхянь-дэ

Ши Хун, помощник главнокомандующего в Тъхянь-дэ, с сильною конницей и кочевыми из поколений шатоского и кибиского выступили в Юнь-чжеу

Simon Hollingsworth KudoZ activity Questions: 355 (2 open) (2 without valid answers) (9 closed without grading) Answers: 244 United Kingdom
Local time: 16:21

English translation:Tian-de

Explanation:
It's a Chinese word. According to transliteration rules, it should be transliterated like this. (I'm trying to learn Chinese and consulted my textbooks)

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Note added at 1 hr (2011-03-11 12:59:23 GMT)
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This character 天德 is transliterated as tian de, it's the name of one of Chinese emperors. There may have been a city with such name

Selected response from:

Ivan Borshchevsky
Local time: 18:21

Grading comment

After consultation with the author, I believe this is what is needed. Thank you, everyone
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

3 +3

T'hyan-de

Yuri Dubrov

Thanh De

LanaUK

3 +1

Tian-de

Ivan Borshchevsky

3 +1

Tian De

Thomas O'Gara

Summary of reference entries provided

It should probably be spelled with a ь not a ъ

GaryG

spelling :)

Nadezhda Kirichenko

Discussion entries: 3

Answers

42 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

T'hyan-de

Explanation:
Oikhors (Uigurs) besieged the fortress T'hyan-de

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Note added at 50 Min. (2011-03-11 12:31:29 GMT)
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or Tiande

Chinese history was very concise in its descriptions. It said that in early years of Huichang, namely, AD 841 on, the Huihe [Uygurs] were attacked by the Kirghiz. Hence they relocated to the Tiande and Zhenwu areas

Yuri Dubrov
Russian Federation
Local time: 18:21
Native speaker of: Russian

44 mins confidence:

Thanh De

Explanation:
=

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Note added at 59 mins (2011-03-11 12:39:55 GMT)
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some more names:
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http:/...

LanaUK
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:21
Native speaker of:

English,

Russian

48 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

Tian-de

Ivan Borshchevsky
Local time: 18:21
Native speaker of:

Russian
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

After consultation with the author, I believe this is what is needed. Thank you, everyone

46 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

Tian De

Explanation:
My best guess is that this is a transliteration of a Chinese name for a city in Mongolia (see the web reference below). However, the usual transliteration of the Chinese syllable "tian" ("heavenly") into Cyrillic is "тянь"; there is no such transliteration as "Тъхянь". I tried looking in Mongolian, but there is no such word that I could find.

You may want to check out the web reference cited below for historical reference. While it seems obscure to me, it might relate to the context of the material you're working on.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2011-03-11 18:08:54 GMT)
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"Tian De" (天德) - "Heavenly Virtue" is a quite common name for cities and towns; there are several of them in modern China, so it's not unlikely that it is a town name in this case.

Reference: http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/Dokumenty/China/Bicurin/Sobr_s...

Thomas O'Gara
Thailand
Local time: 22:21
Native speaker of:

English

Reference comments

40 mins

Reference: It should probably be spelled with a ь not a ъ

Reference information:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Уге-хан

GaryG
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 31

1 hr peer agreement (net): +1

Reference: spelling :)

Reference information:
When I was looking for the links I've come across the spelling containing both "ь" and "ъ"

(1) http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/Dokumenty/China/Bicurin/Sobr_s...

Ань-бэй ду-хо-фу (Под словом правление разумеется местопребывание главного начальника и округ, управляемый им.), правление северного наместника; /4/ находилось в Уратском аймаке, от княжеского стойбища на западе; в 722 году перемещено из Среднего Шеу-сян-чен в пределы округов Фын-чжеу и Шень-чжеу, а в 724 году переведено в корпус Тьхянь-дэ-гюнь.

...

Средний Шеу-сян-чен; средний город для принятия покорившихся; название крепости, лежавшей от Уратского знамени на западе, на северном берегу Желтой реки, В 722 году здесь помещено было Ань-бэй-ду-хо-фу, правление северного наместника. От сей крепости считалось на восток до восточного Шеу-сян-чен 300, на запад до Тьхянь-дэ-гюнь 200, на юг до Лин-чжеу 400, на север до выхода в Великую песчаную степь 300 ли. Средний Шеу-сян-чен построен в одно время с восточным и западным Шеу-сян-чен в 708 году, в продолжение двух месяцев. Все сии три крепости, несмотря на название, построены для прикрытия Ордоса от набегов.

...

/71/ Тъхянь-дэ-гюнь, крепость, находившаяся в Уратском аймаке, от главного стойбища на северо-западе, в 200 ли от среднего Шеу-сян-чен на северо-западе же. Основана китайцами в 750-х годах для помещения корпуса Тьхянь-дэ-гюнь.

so it appears to be a fortress.

Then there was also another link about Уге-Хан mentioning Тьхянь-дэ

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Уге-хан

Уге-хан (кит. 乌介可汗, пиньинь wujiekehan, палл. Узце-кэхань) — каган уйгурского каганата с 840 года по 846 год. Возглавил остатки каганата, вторгся в Китай и погиб.

Вторжение в Китай 841—843 год

Собрав уйгуров, Уге повёл из подальше от кыргызов, в Китай. Голодные уйгуры стали грабить крестьян, каган осадил крепость Тьхянь-дэ.

then I Googled "Wuje Khan"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Wuzong_of_Tang

...

One of the first things that Emperor Wuzong had to deal with was the collapse of Tang's erstwhile vassal and ally Huigu — which had supported Tang in various campaigns through the decades. In 840, due to internal power struggles, Huigu was weakened, such that when the Xiajiasi khan Are (阿熱) attacked, the Huigu khan Yaoluoge Hesa (藥羅葛闔馺) was killed. The Huigu tribespeople scattered, fleeing in various directions. One major group, under the leadership of the prince Wamosi and the nobles Chixin (赤心), Pugu (僕固), and Najiachuo (那頡啜), headed for the Tang border city of Tiande (天德, in modern Hohhot, Inner Mongolia) and sought to submit to Tang. The leader of another major group, the noble Yaoluoge Wuxi, claimed the khan title for himself (as Wujie Khan); Wujie Khan subsequently seized Emperor Wuzong's aunt Princess Taihe, who had married a previous khan (Chongde Khan) and held her hostage. Various Huigu remnants pillaged the Tang border regions, causing much disturbance for the Tang people. At Li Deyu's suggestion, Emperor Wuzong supplied food to the Huigu remnants to try to calm them, while accepting Wamosi's submission. When Wujie Khan subsequently demanded that Tang turn Wamosi over to him as a traitor, Emperor Wuzong refused.[3]

...

"Tiande fortress" produced a few links, including the following:

On the correlation between the formation of the “Maowusu ...
by C Ai - 2006
... present) and Tiande Jun Fortress (Datong Fortress) northwards, after passing through the Wushui River (currently known as the Nalin River), the Helin ...
www.springerlink.com/index/JN1418H1651U83W4.pdf - Similar

Springer is a respected publishing house, so I suppose it's safe to use this spelling.

there was also another link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Guangyan
...

Before the campaign against Wu Yuanji

In 806, during the reign of Emperor Dezong's grandson Emperor Xianzong, Yang Huilin (楊惠琳) seized control of Xiasui Circuit (夏綏, headquartered in modern Yulin, Shaanxi), and Emperor Xianzong mobilized the armies of Hedong and Tiande Base (天德軍, in modern Bayan Nur, Inner Mongolia) to attack Yang. Yan Shou (嚴綬) the military governor of Hedong sent Adie Guangjin and Adie Guangyan to attack Yang. Soon, Yang's subordinate Zhang Chengjin (張承金) killed Yang and surrendered.[5]

***

"T'hyan-de fortress" produced one hit:

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/10_History/Bichurin/B...
N.Ya.Bichurin
COLLECTION OF INFORMATION ON PEOPLES
IN CENTRAL ASIA IN ANCIENT TIMES
Printing house of military schools
Sankt Petersburg, 1851
Part 1 Section 7
Account of House of Hoihu (Tele Uigurs ca. 540 - 840 AD)

So that's basically the translation of the text from the first link above.

***
"Thyanh-de fortress" does not google that well

Nadezhda Kirichenko
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Russian,

Ukrainian

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Тъхянь-дэ

English translation: Tian-de

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Тъхянь-дэ

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