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French to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / biography
French term or phrase:Le dépouillement du vieil homme commença dans la souffrance
« Je croyais qu’elle avait un fibrome ? », demanda t-il. « Non Jacques, pas du tout ! Elle a un cancer depuis plus de dix huit ans ! » Quelle nouvelle ! En effet, l’organisme de sa femme avait révélé un envahissement métastasique général. Ses jours étaient comptés. « Il ne te reste plus qu’à prier maintenant, c’est tout ce que tu peux faire pour elle ! ******Le dépouillement du vieil homme commença dans la souffrance****** : Ma femme, mon âme, était atteinte d’un cancer généralisé » _______
This is the biography of a man who years before had had an Out-of-Body Experience (OBE or NDE). Now it's the turn of his wife to fall gravely ill - unfortunately, she doesn't come back miraculously cured. At this point, he has just been told of the nature of her illness by her specialist, whom he also knows socially.
The text is confused by the reported speech (the words of the specialist) interspersed with Jacques' own words, and possibly (for I wouldn't put it past him!) also the words of the biographer! This term LOOKS like an intervention of the biographer, but I wouldn't like to vouch for this...
I don't THINK "dépouillement" can have any connection with assessments or evaluations, and wonder if it could possibly have anything to do with Jacques "falling apart/going to pieces". I'm assuming that le vieil homme does refer to Jacques...
In any case, I have little idea what is actually being said here, and would much appreciate any help with making some logical sense of it!
Titus 2:13-15 A Christian's present condition may be one of frustration, ... And the mechanics of the cleansing process are indicated in Ephesians - "by the washing of ... www.realtime.net/~wdoud/titus/titus10.html - Cached - Similar
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 59 mins (2011-01-16 15:26:12 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
or maybe better
Abnegation , self-denial, renouncing , or stripping oneself of any thing , ademption ..
Dictionnaire français-anglais et anglais-français: rédigé d'après ... - Google Books Result Alexandre Boniface - 1828 - Foreign Language Study DÉPOUILLEMENT, J. m. [privation volontaire; détachement, éloigne m ont] Abnegation , self-denial, renouncing , or stripping oneself of any thing , ademption ... books.google.co.uk/books?id=oUhDAAAAYAAJ...
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2011-01-16 15:27:46 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
abnegation noun 1. giving up, surrender, refusal, rejection, abandonment, renunciation, sacrifice, forbearance, disallowance, relinquishment, eschewal, abjuration He attacked 'society' for its abnegation of responsibility. 2. abstinence, continence, temperance, renunciation, self-denial These monks took to abnegation and scourging as expiation for the sins of the world.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2011-01-16 15:28:14 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
many thanks everybody for all the utterly invaluable help! Several great suggestions here, but the points have to go to Liz, who, backed so ably by Wordeffect, spotted so soon that this is a biblical reference. The final version may change slightly, as there is still some translation and much tweaking to do on this text. If so, I'll adjust the Glossary accordingly when the time comes 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
Happy reading Wordeffect and have a good evening! :)
Bourth (X)
Slough off
21:23 Jan 16, 2011
I think that sense is the fourth definition of dépouiller in Larousse Lexis which I do not currently have to hand. And no, I don't know it by heart, I consulted it earlier then got sidetracked.
Alison Sabedoria (X)
United Kingdom
(Wordeffect takes bow and acknowledges applause)
19:13 Jan 16, 2011
Thank you for your kind words - and well done Liz, too.<p> It was nice to have a good reason to look something up in my French Bible - I'd forgotten just how beautiful it is: a big fat Swiss edition from 1930 with lovely woodcut illustrations and a real pleasure to leaf through. Unlike the English, I've not read enough in French yet to have quotations at my fingertips.<p> Have you been following Radio 4's celebration of the King James Bible? - excellent, particularly the details about the translators' work!
That's brilliant Wordeffect (and Liz) - I would never in a million years have thought of looking for this in the Bible! This makes a lot more sense of what I honestly found to be fairly nonsensical...
Such is the tremendous power of KudoZ - and all your brilliant minds!
Thanks so much for this invaluable input!
Alison Sabedoria (X)
United Kingdom
Sloughing off?
17:21 Jan 16, 2011
My immediate impression upon reading your extract was of a "sloughing off" of the old life, like a moult, to enable new growth. Only afterwards did I see that it's one of the options in Liz's reference. Like Liz, I see it as an ultimately positive process. <p> I've finally found the biblical reference in French, which confirms what Liz thought, Ephesians 4:22-24: "...à vous de dépouiller, en ce qui concerne votre vie passée, le vieil homme corrompu... et à vous revêtir du nouvel homme, crée à l'image de Dieu...". In the English RSV: "Put off your old nature...", in the King James: "That ye put off... the old man..." Hopes this helps. =)<p> BTW it's definitely "old" in the sense of former.
Hello all! I may have gone over the top here. But all my findings about "dépouillement" would indicate a more spiritual/religious interpretation:) I could do with an OBE to cope with my life at times!
I too have been puzzling re "veil homme", as Jacques was in his mid-fifties at the time - a mere spring chicken by my standards! But I suppose it's all relative, and I'm not certain of the age of the biographer. That said, I can't see who else this could apply to, as the only other men in sight are the cancer specialist and the yoga instructor. But the story isn't about them.
Bourth (X)
decline
16:04 Jan 16, 2011
Could it be a reference to the future, when his alcoholic wife will, albeit momentarily, wreck his life, take his money, etc. (I presume), even if he does bounce back? Secondly, how applicable is "old"? What age was he when his first wife dies? He lives on for 6 years, remarries (for how long), re-remarries (how long after?), then his 3rd wife dies (how long after), then he lives on till the present day! Or is "old" describing him now, but referring to him then, as in for example "The old general commanded X Battalion Royal Fusiliers landing on Sword Beach in 1944" said of a man who is 104 yrs old now?
I don't know the very end of the story - only that after nursing his wife, Jacques then lives for 6 yrs alone (not too irksome, as he had a job that gave him great satisfaction!). But he then meets and marries an alcoholic, who makes his life a misery, and drives him out of his own home - well, he actually went quite willingly, to escape her bullying! I'm just coming to the part where he meets and marries a 3rd pretty woman, who also proves to be "the love of his life", and who also, sadly, is to die of cancer... What happens after that I don't yet know, but I do know that Jacques is still alive, albeit pretty old now. He definitely regards his OBE as a very positive and life-enhancing event, which helps him endure all the tribulations that were to beset him in his later life
is extraordinary, it all sounds rather far-fetched to me! She reads it as a process undertaken by the old man himself. I see it more as a stripping down, a road towards the end. Don't forget that "la dépouille" is "mortal remains"
incidentally, he hadn't actually lost his soul, but this was his name for his wife - a term of endearment. Sorry, I hadn't spotted how confusing this would be, as I'd grown so accustomed to seeing it everywhere!
divestment - definition of divestment by the Free Online ... tr.v. di·vest·ed, di·vest·ing, di·vests. 1. To strip, as of clothes. 2. a. To deprive, as of rights or property; dispossess. b. To free of; rid: "Most ... www.thefreedictionary.com/divestment - Cached - Similar
I've tried to fit this into my response to the comment supplied by Liz, below, but repeat it here (to save you having to search elsewhere!):
Jacques had gradually evolved from the pre-NDE/OBE sworn atheist of old to a firm Christian, although this transformation had already occurred before his wife's illness and subsequent death - albeit not long before. This could feasibly be seen as a continuation of that process
I see "dépouillement" as more positive than "decline". The old man has to leave behind his old life to start a new one...He has already had an out-of-body experience, so I see "dépouillement" as a spiritual/religious" reference.
as you get older things get taken away from you one by one: friends disappear, you become invisible, your health declines... I would translate "dépouillement" by "decline" in fact. The first stage in his decline began with the agony of knowing his beloved wife was about to die. Would that fit with the rest?
It is clear that suffering is the first step on a long road of "dépouillement"...
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
54 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +3
cleansing of the old man began with/in suffering
Explanation: well, we have to start somewhere
Titus 2:13-15 A Christian's present condition may be one of frustration, ... And the mechanics of the cleansing process are indicated in Ephesians - "by the washing of ... www.realtime.net/~wdoud/titus/titus10.html - Cached - Similar
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 59 mins (2011-01-16 15:26:12 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
or maybe better
Abnegation , self-denial, renouncing , or stripping oneself of any thing , ademption ..
Dictionnaire français-anglais et anglais-français: rédigé d'après ... - Google Books Result Alexandre Boniface - 1828 - Foreign Language Study DÉPOUILLEMENT, J. m. [privation volontaire; détachement, éloigne m ont] Abnegation , self-denial, renouncing , or stripping oneself of any thing , ademption ... books.google.co.uk/books?id=oUhDAAAAYAAJ...
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2011-01-16 15:27:46 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
abnegation noun 1. giving up, surrender, refusal, rejection, abandonment, renunciation, sacrifice, forbearance, disallowance, relinquishment, eschewal, abjuration He attacked 'society' for its abnegation of responsibility. 2. abstinence, continence, temperance, renunciation, self-denial These monks took to abnegation and scourging as expiation for the sins of the world.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2011-01-16 15:28:14 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
how about abnegation??
liz askew United Kingdom Local time: 11:41 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
many thanks everybody for all the utterly invaluable help! Several great suggestions here, but the points have to go to Liz, who, backed so ably by Wordeffect, spotted so soon that this is a biblical reference. The final version may change slightly, as there is still some translation and much tweaking to do on this text. If so, I'll adjust the Glossary accordingly when the time comes
Notes to answerer
Asker: many thanks once again Liz! I'm still trying to absorb all this in the context, but I particularly like renunciation and abnegation (so much more appropriate than my dictionary defs!).
I hadn't realised the possible relevance here of the fact that Jacques is about to go into a long period of self denial - starting with caring for his wife. He then has 6 years living a fairly ascetic life on his own before meeting and marrying a woman who turns out to be a rampant alcoholic and who drives him out of his own home, to live in a small van on the streets.
Just now, I'm trying to fit all this together, but these ideas are extremely helpful
peer agreement (net): +3