snelkracht

23:31 Jul 6, 2010 

Yeah you're right, plus they had much better defence which is the key in today's football... I support your team as I've spent quite a bit of time in the Netherlands but I may be in two minds in the final if the Germans qualify cos their two top scorers are Polish! :)
I've learned a lot from your contributions to this discussion too - thanks!

21:22 Jul 6, 2010 

I have had another close look at the definitions and have arrived at the conclusion that they don't exclude your suggestions and now I am even inclined to support them.

Apparently Oranje haven't lacked speed and explosive strength :-). It was the first match I watched and I think they were the better team, combinations between players were more frequent and more sophisticated, there was more structure to their play. So I suppose they deserved to win.

Thanks for the discussion, which was instructive.

18:18 Jul 6, 2010 

Barend, ik hoop vanavond Oranje hebben genoeg explosieve kracht en snelkracht... Oranje voor kampioen! :)

Yeah, so we're slowly coming to some conclusions and common points in all definitions. Explosive strength is the maximum or almost maximum strength applied in minimal time, and speed strength would be (slightly) lower than maximum strength in a bit extended period (although still short).
I reckon it makes a logical spectrum of "strength kinds", with highest force over the shortest time at one end, and lower applied force over a longer time at the other. The opposite end would be "strength endurance" (I dunno the Dutch term) - the ability to keep your muscles working continuously with moderate to high intensity over a long time. That's perhaps the most useful in rock climbing which I've practised a lot, although explosive strength comes in handy too with more difficult dynamic moves.

16:40 Jul 6, 2010 

My neighbour, who graduated from the sport academy, is a sports teacher and a passionate athlete, could not tell me what the Dutch equivalents of speed-strength and strength-speed training were. My assumption was these were known training programmes, but it didn't mean much to him :-)

Yes, I thought that your second definition referred to explosive strength, but put in more scientific terms.
In the glossary it is called "speed power", power being defined as F x v (Force x speed of force application)

This would mean that "explosieve kracht" could be translated as "speed strength/power"

but what about "snelkracht"? I am not sure (I hope you don't mind) it should be "speed strength" if we use the following definitions:

explosieve kracht: het eenmalig verplaatsen van een zeer grote weerstand met de grootst mogelijke snelheid (kogelstoten, hoogspringen)

snelkracht: het meerdere malen, zo snel mogelijk na elkaar, overwinnen van een grote weerstand of verplaatsen van een groot gewicht (100 m sprint, 50 m zwemmen)

I would think of "sustained/maintained speed strength/power", or something ?

15:42 Jul 6, 2010 

Katja, graag gedaan! :)

22:19 Jul 5, 2010 

The 2nd definition I quoted ("Speed strength is the ability of the neuromuscular system to produce the greatest possible impulse in the shortest possible time") is IMO not precise and more likely refers to explosive strength.

According to your definitions the main difference would be time. It would be a short moment for explosive strength (we all more or less agree about that) and a bit prolonged time or several repetitions (like in running or swimming sprint) for speed strength.
So according to different sources thare are some different definitions of speed strength.

Power (P) is work (W) performed or energy (E) produced in a unit of time (t). Work, in a simplification, is the force (F) acting over a given distance (s).
IMO 'strength' would still be more precise in this discussion, as this (strength/force) is what we're actually 'measuring' in a given time (longer or shorter).
I look forward to hearing your neighbour's opinion!

21:49 Jul 5, 2010 

you came up with two definitions in this discussion

the last one: "Speed strength is the ability of the neuromuscular .. "

the first one: "Speed strength is defined as the ability to quickly execute .."

the thought occurred to me that if we replaced "strength" with "power" in the last one (are the English a bit confused as well?), all definitions would be more or less consistent, with the first one corresponding to the speed-strength training of the glossary

the glossary differentiates between "strength power" and "speed power", where "speed power" refers to what we have called "explosieve kracht" and "strength power" to what may be called "maximale kracht"

I intend to ask my neighbour (an expert) about "speed-strength" and "strength-speed" meanwhile I found the following definitions for "explosieve kracht" and "snelkracht"

explosieve kracht: het eenmalig verplaatsen van een zeer grote weerstand met de grootst mogelijke snelheid (kogelstoten, hoogspringen)

snelkracht: het meerdere malen, zo snel mogelijk na elkaar, overwinnen van een grote weerstand of verplaatsen van een groot gewicht (100 m sprint, 50 m zwemmen)

http://www.knkf.nl/media/files/KT_1.pdf

21:13 Jul 5, 2010 

Thanks Barend, really useful glossary. I think those 'strength-speed', 'speed-strength' etc. in there refer to types of training regimens related to building those specific abilities. In Polish sources I've also come across the terms that literally mean 'speed strength' and 'strength speed', referring to physical abilities of muscles. The rest I still remember from my physics lessons, I'm an engineer after all :)
To sum up, I reckon explosive strength and speed strength both mean the ability to exert force in a very short time. In the former the force is close to maximum and in the latter it can be lower.

14:56 Jul 5, 2010 

I may have found a comprehensive and authoritative glossary. They differentiate between "speed-strength", "strength-speed" and "speed power" :-) See for full entries the glossary.

Strength-speed= This is speed training where there is relatively more contribution from force rather than acceleration. Strength-speed training uses higher intensities than power training and of course speed-strength.

Speed-Strength= This is speed training where there is relatively more contribution from acceleration than force. This uses lower intensities than power training or strength-speed training. (snelkracht?)

Power= Power is the product of force and velocity. So, Power = Force X speed of force application (P = F X v). Power can be improved by two methods: 1) by increasing the amount of force one can produce or 2) by increasing the speed of movement.

As mentioned above, power can be improved with two methods.

Speed power: Speed Power focuses on improving power by improving the rate of contraction of a muscle. The ability to produce force quickly is the goal of this type of training. (speed power = explosieve kracht?)

http://www.gustrength.com/resources:glossary#z

11:36 Jul 5, 2010 

Sources aren't always in agreement with each other:
http://www.coachr.org/spst.htm
"Speed strength is the ability of the neuromuscular system to produce the greatest possible impulse in the shortest possible time. The two aspects to speed strength are starting strength and explosive strength. Starting strength is the force developed in 30ms from the start of a concentric contraction. Explosive strength is the ability to continue the initiated force as fast as possible. The time period is approximately 150ms. It is the maximum rate of force development (RFD) in a maximum isometric contraction."

11:17 Jul 5, 2010 

My apologies, had another look at the link and it is not helpful as I initially thought, it only contributes to the idea the two terms mean the same.

10:50 Jul 5, 2010 

Sorry, didn't notice your later discussion entry, but I'm totally confused now. What does the URL you gave us have to do with the text you're translating? My assumption that the two terms are synonymous was based on http://home.scarlet.be/~wd947523/kracht.htm .....!

10:33 Jul 5, 2010 

It could be helpful to know......

10:12 Jul 5, 2010 

Katja, as I wrote to Moira, I initially thought they are the same, but I have also found separate definitions of "explosive strength" and "speed strength" describing rather different things, both in English and my native Polish, so I'm a bit confused now.
Also from my own experience in training, "explosive force" is not necessarily the same as "speed force".
Shall I re-enter an answer?

10:08 Jul 5, 2010 

Hi Kamilw,

That certainly looks like a good candidate... Thanks!

10:07 Jul 5, 2010 

Hello Moira,

I'm not mistaken and have noticed the two terms are used synonymously but in the text i'm working this is not the case. Please refer to my discussion entry addressed to Riens.

10:06 Jul 5, 2010 

Maybe this:
"Speed Strength - Speed strength is defined as the ability to quickly execute an unloaded movement or a movement against a relatively small external resistance. For example, working with a punch-out drill against the heavy bag would equate to the execution of a relatively small external resistance, as the weight of the glove is insignificant."
From the same source:
http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/strengthtraining.html

Although from Katja's reference it looked like the author defined explosieve kracht and snelkracht as the same. But maybe it's "speed strength" then?

10:01 Jul 5, 2010 

Hallo Riens,

In de tekst die ik moet vertalen staat bijv. de volgende zin: Een toename van snelkracht heeft ook een toename in explosieve kracht tot gevolg. Vandaar de verwarring!

09:58 Jul 5, 2010 

"Explosieve of snelkracht is de eigenschap om een uitwendige belasting met een hoge (of de hoogste) contractiesnelheid te overwinnen, dus het vermogen om in de kortst mogelijke tijd een maximum van kracht vrij te maken. Deze kracht is bepalend bij alle spring- en werpnummers."

09:53 Jul 5, 2010 

09:51 Jul 5, 2010 

Hello Jennifer,
The term comes from an entry test for skate coaches. The definition of 'snelkracht' is "het snel en herhaaldelijk overwinnen van behoorlijke weerstanden" according to google.

09:47 Jul 5, 2010 

Once again, it depends on the context.