или без такового либо

English translation: or failing that

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Russian term or phrase:или без такового
English translation:or failing that
Entered by: David Knowles

14:51 Apr 13, 2010
Russian to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / criminal code
Russian term or phrase: или без такового либо
This is the next paragraph. What does this phrase mean, and how does или fit in with либо? "or in the absence of such or deprivation of liberty" just doesn't make sense to me. I'm almost tempted to omit it as an error, but I suspect the error is in my understanding!

...наказывается штрафом в размере до одного миллиона рублей или в размере заработной платы или иного дохода осужденного за период до пяти лет ***или без такового либо*** лишением свободы на срок до десяти лет с лишением права занимать определенные должности или заниматься определенной деятельностью на срок до трех лет.
David Knowles
Local time: 10:46
or alternatively
Explanation:
I believe it's stressing that the sentences are alternatives and not cumulative
Selected response from:

John Farebrother
United Kingdom
Grading comment
Thanks again John! I've decided that либо is the mistake, since there isn't a second либо to make the either/or.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +3or alternatively
John Farebrother
Summary of reference entries provided
example of a normal wording (art. 203)
a05

Discussion entries: 15





  

Answers


54 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
or alternatively


Explanation:
I believe it's stressing that the sentences are alternatives and not cumulative

John Farebrother
United Kingdom
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 20
Grading comment
Thanks again John! I've decided that либо is the mistake, since there isn't a second либо to make the either/or.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Victor Zagria: year, it's all about differentiation of the punishment methods, imho-ho
3 hrs
  -> thanks

agree  Victoria Penrice
5 hrs
  -> спасибо

neutral  a05: либо alone is sufficient for the idea of alternation. -- see how other articles of the same code are worded
19 hrs

agree  Irene Fridman
22 hrs
  -> thanks
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Reference comments


20 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: example of a normal wording (art. 203)

Reference information:
наказывается ограничением свободы на срок до трех лет,

либо арестом на срок до шести месяцев,

либо лишением свободы на срок до пяти лет с лишением права занимать определенные должности или заниматься определенной деятельностью на срок до трех лет или без такового.

This is how this formula "или без такового" is normally used.
There is a basic punishment (deprivation of liberty) and an additional one (prohibition of professional activities).
"или без такового" means that such additional punishment may be or may be not attached to the basic.

In art. 201, there is no "с" before "без".
There is "с лишением" in the further language, and it might be appropriate to put "или без такового" in the very end of the clause. Then it would make sense.

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Note added at 21 hrs (2010-04-14 12:01:49 GMT)
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Finally, translation:

or without the same
or without the latter

a05
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 36

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Judith Hehir
2 hrs
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