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French to English translations [PRO] Ships, Sailing, Maritime / Yacht terminology
French term or phrase:filières d'avant
From a yacht manual.
"Retires les filières d'avant lors d'utilisation du gennaker (risque d'endommagement).
I have no idea what the filières could be. I have found a translation for guard lines (as in the ropes attached to stanchions round the yacht) but why would you remove them? Surely this can't be safety procedure? Any insight most appreciated.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 17 mins (2010-02-19 13:56:26 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Juste pour l'anecdote ... Some years ago, sailing with some English/Scottish friends around Mull, I remarked to the skipper that I was going to clip on "to the life-line" (thinking "ligne de vie", i.e. "jack stay" ...), to which he replied - quite rightly - "no, don't ever do that, use the jack-stay ...!"
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 35 mins (2010-02-19 14:14:39 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Further explanation: FR : filières = EN life-lines FR : ligne de vie = EN jack-stay
Confusing, n'est-ce pas ?!
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 43 mins (2010-02-19 14:21:54 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
The same situation occurs, of course, with : FR : mât d'artimon = EN mizzen mast (or mizen mast) FR : mât de misaine = EN foremast etc etc
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 5 days (2010-02-25 12:02:09 GMT) Post-grading --------------------------------------------------
Nikki, This long discussion was re-launched by your postings over 3 weeks after the question was closed. As for "UK/US differences", I suspect the explanation is simply confusion between "lifeline" as used for "filières", as in the present case, and for any line or rope (on shore) used to provide support or assistance (eg to a crew member who has been indecent enough to fall overboard). By the way, as well as a translation service, I also provide typing courses, at very reasonable fees .. ;o))
There are UK and US differences too. The two are used pretyy much interchangeably. Some manufacturers use "lifeline" for the top cable and guardrail for the lower cables. Hey, the ASker got the translation done and it has no doubt been understood correctly, that's what counts! Tiem to move on!
Not laying any claim to infused science here guys, you know. Filières/ligne de vie and guardrails/lifelines are some of many terms - both in French and English - being used more and more as if synonyms.
to be a fly on the wall during your discussions with the IMOCA 60 guys (and girls, I hope), Nikki ...
Nikki Despai (X)
Indeed
18:33 Mar 17, 2010
Of course it is usually cut and set so that it is above. Like I said Michael though, many folks don't agree on the term. And I do agree that as logic would have it, guard-rails suggests somtehing solid and lines something flexible. Moving even further away, a boat is not a musicla instrument, but there are fiddles and pianos on board!
But I still can't see why the "filières" should be removed when flying a gennaker, which is usually cut so that it is well above the "infrastructure" ... But perhaps we should continue the discussion elsewhere.. it's getting off-topic!
a pulpit would be forward of the gennaker's tack wouldn't it ? i.e. it wouldn't interfere with the sail but hey, who knows for sure without a picture? except Nikki of course :-))
Apart from the fact that, manual or not, I always try to be as precise as possible (isn't that what professional translating is about?), a "rail" is solid and a "line" is, well, floppy... See Steve Sleight "The new complete sailing manual" (it won't teach you anything about sailing, but it's a useful source of commonly-used terms): on p. 207 a pretty drawing shows the "filières" with the note "Lifelines: 2 lifelines run on either side of the boat from the pulpit to the pushpit.." The small drawing in your Northsails link points quite clearly to the pul(l)pit, not the "filières", and they are not suggesting that the pullpit should be removed ...merely that its height needs to be known when the sail-maker is cutting the gennaker... I can accept that the "filières" (=lifelines) might be removable (quoique ..), but nobody in their right mind would want to remove the pulpit ...which would take a lot of work, anyway.
But I have a couple of friends (and my daughter's bf) who use them on cruiser-racers - not quite racing, but not quite cruising either sometimes ... And I agree with the "spinnaker without the hastle" comment - so much simpler ! That being said, what is your view on removing the life-lines when flying a gennaker?
I don't think the gennaker is a racing sail, not a thoroughbred one at any rate, it's a spinnaker without the hassle because it is much easy to set and control (it sets like a genoa and balloons out like a spinnaker), a cruising spinnaker
I don't have a vast experience of (eg) racing yachts, but I don't remember ever cruising on a yacht with removable forward lifelines - usually the lifelines - "filières" are permanently attached to the "pullpit" ("balcon avant"), which is more likely IMHO to damage the gennaker than the lifelines are. As for safety procedure, anybody working on the forward area near the bows will either be clipped on, or knowing what he / she is doing, anyway - and a lot of racing yachts don't have "filières", anyway. Perhaps a more experienced yachtie might venture an opinion?
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
13 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +1
filières d\'avant
Forward life-lines
Explanation: "Filières" = "life-lines"
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 17 mins (2010-02-19 13:56:26 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Juste pour l'anecdote ... Some years ago, sailing with some English/Scottish friends around Mull, I remarked to the skipper that I was going to clip on "to the life-line" (thinking "ligne de vie", i.e. "jack stay" ...), to which he replied - quite rightly - "no, don't ever do that, use the jack-stay ...!"
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 35 mins (2010-02-19 14:14:39 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Further explanation: FR : filières = EN life-lines FR : ligne de vie = EN jack-stay
Confusing, n'est-ce pas ?!
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 43 mins (2010-02-19 14:21:54 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
The same situation occurs, of course, with : FR : mât d'artimon = EN mizzen mast (or mizen mast) FR : mât de misaine = EN foremast etc etc
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 5 days (2010-02-25 12:02:09 GMT) Post-grading --------------------------------------------------
My pleasure, Gill!
Michael GREEN France Local time: 13:17 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 56
Grading comment
Many thanks, Michael!
26 days confidence:
filières d\'avant
forward guardrails
Explanation: "Filières" are not "lifelines" (lignes de vie) but "guardrails". The terms are often used erroneously. This is a manual. You need to be as precise as possible.
From my first reference, a French original language source, proivdes references to "balcon avant" and "filières". Compare both terms and consult the diagram.
Moving to the second reference, an original English language source, scroll down to the bottom of the left-hand column on the first page. You will see that the sail makers require the height from the deck to the top of the guardrail in order to allow for the gennaker.
It is indeed sometimes necessary to remove the guardrails.
A lifeline is a free line you use on board to attach yourself to something safe in heavy weather. You knid of just hook yourself on and off according to where you need to be. A guardrail is a sort of wire fence affair to stop you from falling overboard.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 26 days (2010-03-17 14:51:15 GMT) Post-grading --------------------------------------------------
They are often referred to as lifelines, but this is an error. I know they are made of cable, covered in PVC. Even the French yachties make the mistake, but the pros do not. The father of my children is a pro round-the-world yachtsman and I have spent 20 years breathing yacht construction and racing, hanging around in more shipyards and architects design offices than is probably good for me!
(Official translator/interpreter for the organisers of the last three Vendeé Globe races and a couple of the participants each time. I also worked as an employee for North Sails sailmakers in the past).
The guardrails on the bow are the guardrails (wires/cables/lines) and right at the very bow, the "balcon avant" (pulpit), with which I agree. That is explaiend by the fact that "balcon avant" has not been used.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Local time: 13:17 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 198
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peer agreement (net): +1
