As-D-Poly

10:46 Feb 5, 2010 

I'll translate it "Poli-D-As" :-)

10:33 Feb 5, 2010 

dear Valeria.
And, yes, about the importance of KudoZers support (and you're always the first and often the better helper ;)

Also, I completely missed the point and I never have guessed on my own that the final solution would have been this one.
Anyway, since it's Italian, why you don't translate it as 'Poli-D-As'? :)

e buona giornata...

08:25 Feb 5, 2010 

Finally we found it.
Thank so much for your comments Valeria.
Best regards
Andrés

05:08 Feb 5, 2010 

the customer replied: "Please leave "D" as it is"!

So my translation will be "Poly-D-As"

Cheers :-)

19:47 Feb 4, 2010 

you're WONDERFUL! (no kidding ;-))

The fault is mine, I didn't explain better what this manual is about. I took it for granted that this table was referring to a mysterious alchemy because of formulas previously encountered.

I strongly (now) believe that this is a VERY short abbreviation for a doping process involving arsenic (which I quite well know is used in wafers production). What probably misguided me was the previous part of this safety manual, where any sort of chemical compound was mentioned with no regards to any process at all. But this morning, when I found the link I posted, light eventually came, confirmed by the links provided by Andrés - by the way "poly" doesn't mean "polymer", but "polycriystalline (silicon)" and (shame on me) I should have recognised it.

I am very sorry to have caused such troubles but, I must admit, delighted as well for the attention you both dedicated to this question.

I'll wait to know what the client has to say but I'm fairly sure we're on the right way.

Mirra, Andrés, I would like to gratefully thank you for the time and efforts you spent to open my eyes.
This is what I like most in ProZ system, the chance to meet great people :-)

17:31 Feb 4, 2010 

Yes, completely agree, something is missing in this formulae. But, what about there´s no specific reference to any compound and they are referring to some kind of polymers in general? That would explain the use of "poly(...)".
That´s my guess. Or maybe there is something else in the table (footnotes, references, etc.) that would be key to understand it...

Regards

15:34 Feb 4, 2010 

actually... I did not explain the chirality matter because.... well Valeria is usually *very* smart (not kidding) and I assumed she perfectly knew the D/L classification.
and D remains the same in Italian (destrogiro).

For the 'poly' question... I continue to say that what worry me is that if you write 'poly' you should match it with the not shortened element name, i.e. 'Arsenic'.
Instead, if you use the abbreviation 'As' you should match it with the poly compound formula inserted between brackets
eg
El polietileno clorado es un tipo de polietileno de fórmula molecular − (CH2 − CHCl − CH2 − CH2)n.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polietileno_clorado


But if Valeria's client says this is the very right name (and formula??)... there is very little left to do to help for this translation I really have no other ideas...

15:29 Feb 4, 2010 

I have found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_semiconductor
An organic semiconductor is an organic material that has semiconductor properties. Semiconductivity is exhibited by single molecules, short chain (oligomers) and ***organic polymers***.
(...)
Examples of polymeric semiconductors are poly(3-hexylthiophene), poly(p-phenylene vinylene), F8BT, as well as polyacetylene and its derivatives.

Also, a potential function of arsenic in this kind of semiconductors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_(semiconductor)
Doping (semiconductor)
In semiconductor production, doping is the process of intentionally introducing impurities into an extremely pure (also referred to as intrinsic) semiconductor to change its electrical properties.
(...)
Boron, ***arsenic***, phosphorus, and occasionally gallium are used to dope silicon.
(...)
Doping in organic conductors

But, as I did before, I am not a chemist or electronic engineer and I can´t assure it. Please, bear in mind this.
Beyond a doubt this is a very complex matter. I would do a note of translation.
Regards!

15:12 Feb 4, 2010 

As far I know, in this context "D" (or his companion "L") refers to a chemical property named "chirality", a complex matter to explain, but Mirra agrees too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirality_(chemistry)
Chirality (chemistry)
(...)
Naming conventions
(...)
By configuration: D- and L-
(...)

I have checked that arsenic forms chiral compounds, so I think that D is dextrorotatory. Look the following references:

http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0036-021X/48/6/R04
The Stereochemistry of Organoarsenic Compounds
(...)
Methods of synthesis of chiral organoarsenic compounds

http://repository.ust.hk/dspace/handle/1783.1/2224
Organic arsenic compounds, being the phosphorus analogs, play an important role in organic synthesis.

About "poly", well, I think they are talking about polymers, but I don´t know what kind, although I presume that could be organic polymers (Anyway, the guy who wrote the table don´t seem worried to explain it and used that abbreviation, so I left it as is).

14:52 Feb 4, 2010 

I agree with Mira about "D" (dextrogire or dextrorotatory) and about the polymeric nature of the X compound (or compounds). This term seems to be incomplete for abbreviation.

"D" (and his companion "L") refers to a chemical property named "chirality"

12:12 Feb 4, 2010 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&num=30&q="D-poly...

è molto usato

invece, da un punto di vista di nomenclatura, come dicevo, non è corretto utilizzare la forma abbreviata 'As' se poi usi 'poly' (dovresti abbreviare anche poli, mettendone la formula chimica e il gruppo che viene replicato "poli" volte)

12:06 Feb 4, 2010 

La grandezza 2 Dt viene definita “lunghezza di diffusione”. Questo parametro viene
assunto come indicatore di quanto profonda è la diffusione. Sostanzialmente,
all’aumentare del suo valore in fase di predeposizione aumenta la quantità di
drogante inserita nella fetta, mentre all’aumentare del suo valore in fase di drive-in
aumenta la regione della fetta interessata alla ridistribuzione del drogante. In particolare, a parità di condizioni (in particolare, a parità di temperatura), antimonio e
arsenico hanno valore di D più basso rispetto a boro e fosforo.
http://ims.unipv.it/Microelettronica/download/TEM/TEM06.pdf

So "D" is for "Doped" or "Diffused"?

11:52 Feb 4, 2010 

secondo te, avrebbe senso dire "poli-destrogiro/destrorso"? perché non trovo riferimenti

11:48 Feb 4, 2010 

anche io penso che sia così, ma aspetto a sentire cosa mi dicono. (As è sicuramente Arsenico :-))
bisou

11:35 Feb 4, 2010 

is dextrorotatory. I wouldn't have many doubts about it (unless your client specifies it's something - I cannot guess what - different).
But... your client told you As is for arsenic?
cheers :)

10:04 Feb 4, 2010 

thanks for your efforts. By any chance, to you happen to have any sort of reference for such abbreviations?
thanks

09:58 Feb 4, 2010 

I have problems to enclose my comments in the reference below, so I try here.
Could be a generic abbreviation of a group of chemical compounds, I guess. Chemical jargon (abbreviated nomenclature).
That´s all I can say at the best of my knowledge.
Good Luck Valeria.

09:13 Feb 4, 2010 

they told me that this is not a unique noun, therefore I have to translate it :-s
Now, I'll ask about the "D" issue...
...to be continued (hopefully!)

17:28 Feb 3, 2010 

guarda... ho il dubbio che sia semplicemente scritto male...
se scrivi poly, arsenic lo riporti per esteso non come As
inoltre andrebbe messo dopo poly...

facci sapere, sì! :)

17:22 Feb 3, 2010 

credo che chiederò lumi al cliente, poiché non ho contesto utile; molto probabilmente si tratta del nome di una lavorazione (interno all'azienda), ma non ho termini di confronto.
Appena avrò notizie, vi renderò partecipi! :-)
Per il momento, grazie a tutti e due!!

17:11 Feb 3, 2010 

cara Valeria :)

ma qualche cue in più?

così sembrerebbe un typo da aggregazione sbagliata di termini. ma magari è ignoranza mia, tuttavia la mancanza totale di documenti che lo riportino è sospetta...