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officine

English translation: (seedy) backstreet establishment, bucket shop, shady agency

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:officine
English translation:(seedy) backstreet establishment, bucket shop, shady agency
Entered by: Lorraine Buckley (X)

18:02 Jan 4, 2010
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Government / Politics
French term or phrase: officine
When 'officine' does not mean a pharmacy/dispensary, is it always derogatory? I have a text about lobbyists which refers to
'3000 officines employant des milliers de lobbyistes'. The only alternative translation I have found is 'den' - is this the best translation, or can it simply mean 'offices' or 'organizations' ?
Lorraine Buckley (X)
Italy
Local time: 19:56
(seedy) backstreet establishment
Explanation:
I think this gives the idea of organisations that are of dubious legitimacy and ethics.

"backstreet establishments such as Canas Y Tapas, where owners like Javier are happy to keep the San Miguel flowing ..."
www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/.../liverpoolfc-tv-with-the-fans-in... -

"Bookmakers are no longer the dingy smoke filled backstreet establishments of yesteryear. They are pleasant, smoke-free, High Street environments serving ..."
www.farnboroughshoparound.com/leisurelifestyle.htm

"This is the heart of the matter - do we want abortions performed in safe legal surroundings or in dubious backstreet establishments? ..."
www.stormfront.org/forum/sitemap/index.php/t-104828.html -

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2010-01-05 12:19:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Some more examples, the last of which uses the word "dodgy", which may also be suitable as an alternative to "seedy" :

"In Outlaws Phil Daniels plays a cynical back street lawyer determined to bleed the legal aid system dry. This release features all the episodes from Season ..."
www.lovefilm.com/film/Outlaws-Complete-Series.../34479/

"Ladies and gentlemen, do not let this shallow braggart - this serial liar - and his shady back-street lawyer deflect you from the main point ..."
uk.messages.finance.yahoo.com/.../threadview?... -

"Like I say, the quote I got was for £281 and was with AXA, so as you can see it wasn't through some dodgy back street insurance company. ..."
www.theiet.org › ... › Student and apprentice discussion forum -
Selected response from:

B D Finch
France
Local time: 19:56
Grading comment
Thanks to all, especially BD Finch but also Jonathan and Michel. In the end I used a combination of your inputs, 'shady agencies' because, as pointed out, they are not physically 'back street'; not bucket shop because tho' excellent for commercial, not suitable to lobbyists. In my context these employers tend to call themselves 'government relations consultancies' but the author of this piece is manifestly doubtful of their integrity/usefulness, so shady agencies/consultancies fits the bill best. Honourable mention to power brokers too, though, in my specific context.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1Bucket shop
Michel F. Morin
3 +1shop
Jean-Louis S.
4Educational centres for lobbyists or Lobbyist Education Centres
Ellen Kraus
4(seedy) backstreet establishment
B D Finch
2 +1power brokers
Jonathan MacKerron
4 -2(government) agency
Chris Hall
2Quango
Steve Melling


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
shop


Explanation:
'Shop' is both literal and pejorative enough when used for a lobbying office.

Jean-Louis S.
United States
Local time: 13:56
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  sktrans: even "back shop" www.list.co.uk/place/103387-anteaques/
59 mins
  -> Merci, SKTrans. 'Back shop' does sound good.
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34 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
(government) agency


Explanation:
In a pejorative sense, "officine" can also mean "headquarters" or "agency", according to my dictionary.

3000 officines employant des milliers de lobbyistes
=
3000 (government) agencies employing thousands of lobbyists

Chris Hall
Local time: 18:56
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Jean-Claude Gouin: See "Bucket shop" below ...
4 hrs
  -> If you are going to disagree with my answer, please be consistent and disagree with the other answers which Michel Morin has deemed to be incorrect.
disagree  Desdemone (X): Government agencies employing lobbyists? Ask yourself - who employs lobbyists?
6 hrs
  -> Many thanks for your constructive feedback. I guess that I just wasn't on my A game this time.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
power brokers


Explanation:
might fit here

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2010-01-04 19:31:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

puppet masters / string pullers/

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2010-01-04 19:31:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or are perhaps "burocrats" meant here?

Jonathan MacKerron
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 48

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: I very much like all of these except "bureaucrats", which has too many public-sector connotations.
16 mins
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
Quango


Explanation:
Just a thought.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2010-01-04 19:41:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Could be an NGO.

Steve Melling
France
Local time: 19:56
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Educational centres for lobbyists or Lobbyist Education Centres


Explanation:
Lobbyist Education Center By design, the tools being created by the LEC fall into the following categories: LOBBYIST EDUCATION CENTER. Publications; Tutorials; Webinars; Seminars ...
www.lobbyist.org/advocacy_tools/

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 Stunde (2010-01-04 19:41:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

i.e. the place where lobbyists are taught their wisdom. Officine in this context is being used as synonym for workshop where they learn their professional skills.

Ellen Kraus
Austria
Local time: 19:56
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 4
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Bucket shop


Explanation:
Yes, when 'officine' does not mean a pharmacy/dispensary, it has a derogatory meaning -to say the least. For instance, we'd talk about an "officine privée de barbouzes". See web.ref.

That's why I do not agree with all suggested translations: it's not a shop, nor an educational centre or even a quango (nothing to do with a NGO) or power brokers. I suggest "bucket shop", which has indeed a derogatory meaning. See web.ref. 2

always derogatory


    Reference: http://www.lejdd.fr/Societe/Justice/Actualite/EDF-Greenpeace...
    Reference: http://www.granddictionnaire.com/BTML/FRA/r_Motclef/index800...
Michel F. Morin
France
Local time: 19:56
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 42

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jean-Claude Gouin: Lieu où se trame quelque chose (péjoratif). I agree with you regarding the other answers ... Bravo, mon vieux.
1 hr
  -> Merci old top.
neutral  Stephanie Ezrol: A bucket shop is U.S. term from about 100 yrs ago refering to companies fraudelently selling stock they didn't own. See Eugene O'Neil's "The Iceman Cometh."
4 hrs
  -> Well, according to the "office québecquois de la langue française", this term seems to be still in use... And it HAS the necessary derogatory meaning...
neutral  B D Finch: In the UK this term is generally applied to cheapo travel agents that undercut the properly insured and established ones.// Derogatory yes, but not travel agents in context of this question.
13 hrs
  -> Yes - therefore the derogatory accent.
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17 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
(seedy) backstreet establishment


Explanation:
I think this gives the idea of organisations that are of dubious legitimacy and ethics.

"backstreet establishments such as Canas Y Tapas, where owners like Javier are happy to keep the San Miguel flowing ..."
www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/.../liverpoolfc-tv-with-the-fans-in... -

"Bookmakers are no longer the dingy smoke filled backstreet establishments of yesteryear. They are pleasant, smoke-free, High Street environments serving ..."
www.farnboroughshoparound.com/leisurelifestyle.htm

"This is the heart of the matter - do we want abortions performed in safe legal surroundings or in dubious backstreet establishments? ..."
www.stormfront.org/forum/sitemap/index.php/t-104828.html -

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2010-01-05 12:19:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Some more examples, the last of which uses the word "dodgy", which may also be suitable as an alternative to "seedy" :

"In Outlaws Phil Daniels plays a cynical back street lawyer determined to bleed the legal aid system dry. This release features all the episodes from Season ..."
www.lovefilm.com/film/Outlaws-Complete-Series.../34479/

"Ladies and gentlemen, do not let this shallow braggart - this serial liar - and his shady back-street lawyer deflect you from the main point ..."
uk.messages.finance.yahoo.com/.../threadview?... -

"Like I say, the quote I got was for £281 and was with AXA, so as you can see it wasn't through some dodgy back street insurance company. ..."
www.theiet.org › ... › Student and apprentice discussion forum -

B D Finch
France
Local time: 19:56
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 123
Grading comment
Thanks to all, especially BD Finch but also Jonathan and Michel. In the end I used a combination of your inputs, 'shady agencies' because, as pointed out, they are not physically 'back street'; not bucket shop because tho' excellent for commercial, not suitable to lobbyists. In my context these employers tend to call themselves 'government relations consultancies' but the author of this piece is manifestly doubtful of their integrity/usefulness, so shady agencies/consultancies fits the bill best. Honourable mention to power brokers too, though, in my specific context.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Jean-Louis S.: Would work if these 'officines' were not generally on 'High Street environments'... [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Street_(Washington,_D.C.)]
8 hrs
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