Selbstgenuss

English translation: self-indulgence / pleasure taken in the corporeal/worldly

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Selbstgenuss
English translation:self-indulgence / pleasure taken in the corporeal/worldly
Entered by: Helen Shiner

13:02 Oct 2, 2009
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
German term or phrase: Selbstgenuss
"Das heisst, es ist sowohl monströs und grotesk als auch voller Freude zum Selbstgenuss, wodurch es sich von seinen Vorgängern klar unterscheidet."

This is from an essay on a Renaissance painting depicting good and evil in close proximity to one another. This sentence is referring to the theme of the work.
Jon Reynolds
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:24
self-indulgence
Explanation:
A low score because without seeing the painting and what is depicted, it is hard to be precise.

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Note added at 5 mins (2009-10-02 13:07:50 GMT)
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I presume that it refers to some of the seven deadly sins: gluttony, lust, etc.

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Note added at 9 mins (2009-10-02 13:11:46 GMT)
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http://www.prayerbook.com/Subjects/sevesins.htm

There are varying lists of the seven deadly sins historically. Some are discussed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

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Note added at 12 mins (2009-10-02 13:14:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hieronymus Bosch springs to mind:

Hieronymus Bosch's monumental Garden of Earthly Delights is instantly recognizable to most lovers of Renaissance art, and as Professor Catherine B. Scallen explains, it has been admired, looked on with shock, and puzzled over for 500 years. In its own time it was copied and even made into tapestries. It has been owned by a deeply devout Catholic king of Spain—and in the 1900s was cited by various scholars as representing the lost golden age of humanity, symbolizing the coded language of the alchemist, or even proving its creator's belief in sexual license. In the turbulent 1960s its images were common in dormitory rooms, delighting students eager to accept its joyful, frolicking nudes in their fantasy landscape as a proclamation of freedom and self-indulgence.
http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/CourseDescLong2.aspx?cid=7170

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Note added at 4 hrs (2009-10-02 17:31:36 GMT)
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It could also be 'taking pleasure in the earthly/corporeal/material/worldly' if that fits better.

Would love to know which artist this is!

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Note added at 4 hrs (2009-10-02 17:53:04 GMT)
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Hi Jon, I wonder if your writer is not stretching a point here. Both couples surely represent earthly love or romantic rather than divine love. I am not sure I can see anything devilish here. But anyway, you don't need my art historical musings, you have to translate the text. The distinction is usually between sacred and profane love: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_and_Profane_Love ie clothed and unclothed on the most basic of levels. Both of the couples in your painting seem to be espousing the more profane kind, though I agree there is a question of slightly differing degree.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2009-10-02 17:54:33 GMT)
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Another brief Wikipedia explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_and_profane

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Note added at 4 hrs (2009-10-02 17:58:37 GMT)
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Having seen your picture, I think I would veer away from self-indulgence - not easy to construct a sentence in which a painting itself can be said to take pleasure in self-indulgence! It is surely the painter who fetes or describes pleasure being taken in the carnal/corporeal/profane or whatever. A typical translating issue, GER-EN, of course.

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Note added at 2 days7 hrs (2009-10-04 20:03:32 GMT) Post-grading
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Thanks for the points, Jon
Selected response from:

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:24
Grading comment
Thanks for such detailed and informative work on this!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
2 +5self-indulgence
Helen Shiner
2wholehearted / celebratory affirmation ('of worldly love' or other phrasing in that domain)
Stephen Reader


Discussion entries: 19





  

Answers


1 day 11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
wholehearted / celebratory affirmation ('of worldly love' or other phrasing in that domain)


Explanation:
With Annett re. celebration, with Helen re. context, we have the pic., but more from the author would be useful - the writer's slant on 'Selbst-' in this case. Living writer, contactable? Low confidence (with Helen) pending this. For the time being I take "selbst-" as implicit in 'worldly'/physical, etc., mortal - which includes the more contemplative air of the background couple, though even this is debatable: her lost gaze(?) & his r. arm over her shoulder is 'merely' more suggestive, the foreground couple more explicit.


    Reference: http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/server.php?show=conObject....
Stephen Reader
Local time: 08:24
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 115
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +5
self-indulgence


Explanation:
A low score because without seeing the painting and what is depicted, it is hard to be precise.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 mins (2009-10-02 13:07:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I presume that it refers to some of the seven deadly sins: gluttony, lust, etc.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 mins (2009-10-02 13:11:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.prayerbook.com/Subjects/sevesins.htm

There are varying lists of the seven deadly sins historically. Some are discussed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 mins (2009-10-02 13:14:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hieronymus Bosch springs to mind:

Hieronymus Bosch's monumental Garden of Earthly Delights is instantly recognizable to most lovers of Renaissance art, and as Professor Catherine B. Scallen explains, it has been admired, looked on with shock, and puzzled over for 500 years. In its own time it was copied and even made into tapestries. It has been owned by a deeply devout Catholic king of Spain—and in the 1900s was cited by various scholars as representing the lost golden age of humanity, symbolizing the coded language of the alchemist, or even proving its creator's belief in sexual license. In the turbulent 1960s its images were common in dormitory rooms, delighting students eager to accept its joyful, frolicking nudes in their fantasy landscape as a proclamation of freedom and self-indulgence.
http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/CourseDescLong2.aspx?cid=7170

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2009-10-02 17:31:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It could also be 'taking pleasure in the earthly/corporeal/material/worldly' if that fits better.

Would love to know which artist this is!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2009-10-02 17:53:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hi Jon, I wonder if your writer is not stretching a point here. Both couples surely represent earthly love or romantic rather than divine love. I am not sure I can see anything devilish here. But anyway, you don't need my art historical musings, you have to translate the text. The distinction is usually between sacred and profane love: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_and_Profane_Love ie clothed and unclothed on the most basic of levels. Both of the couples in your painting seem to be espousing the more profane kind, though I agree there is a question of slightly differing degree.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2009-10-02 17:54:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Another brief Wikipedia explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_and_profane

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2009-10-02 17:58:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Having seen your picture, I think I would veer away from self-indulgence - not easy to construct a sentence in which a painting itself can be said to take pleasure in self-indulgence! It is surely the painter who fetes or describes pleasure being taken in the carnal/corporeal/profane or whatever. A typical translating issue, GER-EN, of course.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days7 hrs (2009-10-04 20:03:32 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the points, Jon

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:24
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 275
Grading comment
Thanks for such detailed and informative work on this!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Isabelle Wiehle
4 hrs
  -> Thank you, Isabelle

agree  Anne-Marie Grant (X)
4 hrs
  -> Thanks, Anne-Marie

agree  Michele Johnson: This is also the first thing that popped into my mind.
4 hrs
  -> Thanks, Michele

agree  Annett Brown, MBA, CT: Same as Michele.
14 hrs
  -> Thanks, Annett

agree  Taunuston (X)
2 days 21 hrs
  -> Thank you, Taunuston
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