référentiel

English translation: referential

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:référentiel
English translation:referential
Entered by: Helen Shiner

11:20 Aug 14, 2009
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
French term or phrase: référentiel
This painter describes his work as "intimiste et référentiel". I don't understand référentiel here.
Lori Cirefice
France
Local time: 11:13
referential
Explanation:
Would be the normal way of saying it. No need to overtranslate.

In Art, a reference is an item from which a work is based. This may include:

an existing artwork,
a reproduction (i.e., photo),
directly observed object (i.e., person), or
the artist's memory.
Another example of reference is samples of various musical works being incorporated into a new one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference

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Note added at 13 mins (2009-08-14 11:34:51 GMT)
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http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4AKnhTlLkicC&pg=PA192&lpg...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bNrqf4yxchEC&pg=RA1-PA13&...

Interesting piece here by Simon Reynolds on Sonic Youth’s latest album The Eternal. Interesting not because it’s about Sonic Youth (pictured here, guest-starring on The Simpsons), but because of how heavily referential he argues their latest work to be. If, as the touring exhibition ‘Sonic Youth Etc.: Sensational Fix’ suggests, the band sees their music as part of a broader multi-disciplinary approach to cultural production, and given how heavily referenced Sonic Youth are in the art world, that this band should make an album that wears its influences so clearly upon its sleeves makes sense, albeit of a slightly disappointing kind. As Reynolds writes:
‘There are plenty of other bands who do this kind of heavily referential work (Stereolab and Saint Etienne spring to mind) but listening to The Eternal, I suddenly started thinking about how it was an odd place from which to write songs. At least, looking at it from the standpoint of seeing songs as the expression of personal experience. It’s not the only standpoint, it’s quite an old-fashioned one, but it does happen to be the approach and mindset of just about all the artistic, literary and musical icons Sonic Youth are honoring on The Eternal. You can’t really imagine Gregory Corso or Darby Crash operating like that. Their art would be a lot more expressionistic and cathartic and torn from the soul. No doubt Sonic Youth have arrayed these touchstones before their audience because they find them imperishably inspirational (perhaps that’s why it’s called The Eternal?). And, for sure, it’s perfectly possible to be profoundly moved by works of art in other mediums than the one you work on. But moved to write a song about it? (One tune on The Eternal, ‘Calming the Snake’, is apparently Kim Gordon “musing on visions of Death in painting”.) It all seems oddly meta, to have more in common with the kind of thing that goes on in the art world.
http://www.frieze.com/blog/entry/self_portrait_of_the_artist...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days7 hrs (2009-08-16 18:56:43 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the points, Lori and the kind comments!
Selected response from:

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:13
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +6referential
Helen Shiner
4referential
Zoubida Hamdaoui
3pregnant with references
David BUICK
3reference model/frame of reference
mimi 254
3allusive
Nora Mahony
3eclectic
kashew
2allusive
Jim Tucker (X)


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
pregnant with references


Explanation:
might be one idea. Example sentence from a very arty page on choreography.

Example sentence(s):
  • We can’t detect the complexity of body-motion in the system of coordinates. It has special depths, it is pregnant with references.

    Reference: http://choreograph.net/articles/lead-article-intersensoryint...
David BUICK
Local time: 11:13
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Emma Paulay: Not sure if it's appropriate here, but I'm noting it down for...future reference!
2 hrs
  -> I note you put a pregnant pause in your comment, Emma ;-)
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7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
allusive


Explanation:
Allusion being a means for intimist painting to transcend the restrictions of its (limited) subject. I don't really know, given the lack of context, so low CL.

Jim Tucker (X)
United States
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
referential


Explanation:
He means that his works may be considered as a reference

Zoubida Hamdaoui
Local time: 11:13
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic, Native in FrenchFrench
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
reference model/frame of reference


Explanation:
je dirais

mimi 254
Local time: 10:13
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 4
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17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
allusive


Explanation:
An option – helpful in that you don't have to specify what it refers/alludes to.





    Reference: http://slowpainting.wordpress.com/2007/11/04/martin-puryears...
    Reference: http://www.artseditor.com/html/september02/sep02_gubo.shtml
Nora Mahony
Ireland
Local time: 10:13
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
eclectic


Explanation:
A close option: deriving ideas, style etc from various sources.

kashew
France
Local time: 11:13
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 55
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10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
referential


Explanation:
Would be the normal way of saying it. No need to overtranslate.

In Art, a reference is an item from which a work is based. This may include:

an existing artwork,
a reproduction (i.e., photo),
directly observed object (i.e., person), or
the artist's memory.
Another example of reference is samples of various musical works being incorporated into a new one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2009-08-14 11:34:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4AKnhTlLkicC&pg=PA192&lpg...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bNrqf4yxchEC&pg=RA1-PA13&...

Interesting piece here by Simon Reynolds on Sonic Youth’s latest album The Eternal. Interesting not because it’s about Sonic Youth (pictured here, guest-starring on The Simpsons), but because of how heavily referential he argues their latest work to be. If, as the touring exhibition ‘Sonic Youth Etc.: Sensational Fix’ suggests, the band sees their music as part of a broader multi-disciplinary approach to cultural production, and given how heavily referenced Sonic Youth are in the art world, that this band should make an album that wears its influences so clearly upon its sleeves makes sense, albeit of a slightly disappointing kind. As Reynolds writes:
‘There are plenty of other bands who do this kind of heavily referential work (Stereolab and Saint Etienne spring to mind) but listening to The Eternal, I suddenly started thinking about how it was an odd place from which to write songs. At least, looking at it from the standpoint of seeing songs as the expression of personal experience. It’s not the only standpoint, it’s quite an old-fashioned one, but it does happen to be the approach and mindset of just about all the artistic, literary and musical icons Sonic Youth are honoring on The Eternal. You can’t really imagine Gregory Corso or Darby Crash operating like that. Their art would be a lot more expressionistic and cathartic and torn from the soul. No doubt Sonic Youth have arrayed these touchstones before their audience because they find them imperishably inspirational (perhaps that’s why it’s called The Eternal?). And, for sure, it’s perfectly possible to be profoundly moved by works of art in other mediums than the one you work on. But moved to write a song about it? (One tune on The Eternal, ‘Calming the Snake’, is apparently Kim Gordon “musing on visions of Death in painting”.) It all seems oddly meta, to have more in common with the kind of thing that goes on in the art world.
http://www.frieze.com/blog/entry/self_portrait_of_the_artist...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days7 hrs (2009-08-16 18:56:43 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the points, Lori and the kind comments!

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:13
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 348
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks Helen! Glad to have your expert input, thanks for the refs as well.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  emiledgar
17 mins
  -> Thanks, emiledgar

agree  Evans (X): yes, I would say that "referential" is the best translation, meaning that it carries references to other things such as you list.
21 mins
  -> Thanks, Gilla

agree  Richardson Lisa
33 mins
  -> Thanks, phillisa

agree  kashew: I realised what "derivative" can signify - but maybe the artist was being hyper-honest! Your referential could in fact include autobiographical references. If we knew the artist and saw some examples it would help. Anyway referential is a safe choice.
1 hr
  -> Thanks, kashew - derivative, as Christopher says, is very pejorative

agree  Christopher Crockett: Definitely not "derivative," which, while perhaps "referential," has a thoroughly negative connotation.
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Christopher - quite so

agree  George C.
4 hrs
  -> Thanks, solarstone
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