en la robe

English translation: wealth and belongings

21:48 Jun 6, 2009

French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - History / 15th-century text

French term or phrase: en la robe

The text is describing "barbarian" peoples of the past, especially their rulers "qui ne jouaient qu'au boute-hors, tâchant de se jeter de leurs sièges ou de s'offenser, fût-ce *en la robe* ou en l'honneur.... (I've modernized the 15th-century spelling, of course).

Anne McConnell KudoZ activity Questions: 1 (none open) Answers: 39 United States
Local time: 19:33

English translation:wealth and belongings

Explanation:
"boute-hors" = "overthrow and vanquish one the other" here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=RGLhuHLF7QMC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA...

If you read on, it discusses combat where one loses one's wealth (la robe?) or one's life (your text goes on to death, after honour, if my Web finding is your text, here):

« Longtemps auparavant que le royaume de Danemark reçût la foi de Jésus et embrassât la doctrine et saint lavement des chrétiens, comme le peuple fut assez barbare et mal civilisé, aussi leurs princes étaient cruels, sans foi ni loyauté, et qui ne jouaient qu’aux boutehors, tâchant à se jeter de leurs sièges ou à s’offenser, FUT EN LA ROBE OU EN L’HONNEUR ET LE PLUS SOUVENT EN LA VIE, n’ayant guère de coutume de mettre à rançon leurs prisonniers, mais les sacrifiaient à la cruelle vengeance imprimée naturellement en leur âme. Que s’il y avait quelque bon roi ou prince qui, poussé des instincts les plus parfaits de nature, voulût s’adonner à la vertu et usât de courtoisie, bien que le peuple l’eût en admiration (comme la vertu se rend admirable aux vicieux môme), si est-ce que l’envie de ses voisins était si grande, qu’on ne cessait jamais jusqu’à tant que le monde fût dépêché de cet homme ainsi débonnaire.
http://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Shakespeare_traduction_Hu...

The etymology of robe is interesting, and could well corroborate my interpretation of the word referring to wealth and belongings. According to Larousse Lexis :
ROBE ... (du germ. rauba, butin, spécialem. «vêtement pris comme butin»; 1160

So robe and "robbery" are probably related.

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Note added at 1 hr (2009-06-06 23:12:55 GMT)
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Yup. SOED says of Robe ("A long loose outer garment ...) "*rauba, of Gmc origin as ROB v., the orig. sense being 'booty', (hence) clothes, regarded as spoil"

So "he took the shirt off my back" takes us back a good thousand years.

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Note added at 1 hr (2009-06-06 23:18:08 GMT)
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So, as in the SOED explanation, I reckon you can translate robe here as booty. Even if one uses a robe to conceal one's booty (see def. 2 here: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=booty)

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Note added at 1 hr (2009-06-06 23:19:34 GMT)
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Which brings us nearly full circle to "boute-hors" ...

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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-06-06 23:49:25 GMT)
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Of course offenser does not mean "offend" but rather "hurt" :
OFFENSE ... (lat. offensa; 1230, «blessure». 1.(1380). Parole ou action BLESSANT quelqu'un dans sa dignité ... 3. Dr. Dénomination particulière de l'outrage envers les chefs d'Etat ... offenser ... Offenser quelqu'un, le BLESSER par des paroles ou par des actes ... CLASS. et LITT. offenser v.tr. 1. Blesser : Ce coup lui a offensé le cerveau ... Incommoder ... Contrarier ... Ternir, porter atteinte à"

So, "to throw each other down from their thrones or do each other harm, be it in terms of wealth, honour, or, most frequently, by death ..."

Selected response from:

Bourth (X)
Local time: 04:33

Grading comment

Un grand merci !
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +3

wealth and belongings

Bourth (X)

(to offend their honor or) formal robes of state

Sorina Grecu

goods

Susan Nicholls

Deprivation of office

B D Finch

Discussion entries: 3

Answers

31 mins confidence:

(to offend their honor or) formal robes of state

Explanation:
a ritual robe...
http://www.ricardopinto.com/work/stone_dance/cornucopia/down...
I even took his robe as a trophy...

so they were obviously symbolic of their status and power, just like the sword, as I remember from the medieval culture and literature studied I studied at the university...

Sorina Grecu
Romania
Local time: 05:33
Native speaker of: Romanian

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

wealth and belongings

Bourth (X)
Local time: 04:33
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 154

Grading comment

Un grand merci !

16 hrs confidence:

Deprivation of office

Explanation:
Another possibility could be that it refers to the distinction between the aristocracy of the robe and that of the sword.

"The Second Estate especially was not a unified class. It was made up of two kinds of nobility: the "Nobles of the Robe" and the "Nobles of the Sword." The "Nobles of the Sword" were aristocrats who dated their titles back to the Middle Ages and beyond, while the "Nobles of the Robe" had acquired their titles by assuming administrative or judicial posts—posts they were often appointed to because they paid for them. The Nobles of the Sword had little commerce or respect for the Nobles of the Robe; this division was a crucial element in the downfall of the monarchy and the Revolution. Many of the Revolutionaries came from the Nobles of the Robe; their interests often more closely aligned with the interests of the Third Estate."
wsu.edu/~dee/REV/CRISIS.HTM

For reference to Denmark see page 210:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=q4K7AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA210&lpg...

B D Finch
France
Local time: 04:33
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 35

16 hrs confidence:

goods

Explanation:
Explanation:
Your text looks like the Hugo translation of Shakespeare's Hamlet (as per Bourth's answer); in which case, the original English gives, for this passage:

the common people in those dayes were barbarous and uncivill, and their princes cruell, without faith or loyaltie, seeking nothing but murther, and deposing (or at the least) offending each other, either in honours, goods, or lives....

Sorry, I submitted a previous answer with the incorrect term!

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Note added at 18 hrs (2009-06-07 16:12:03 GMT)
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Decidedly I shouldn't be answering Kudoz today, this is also incorrect. And silly! It is from the appendix to a critical edition of Shakespeare, and is therefore presumably a translation of Anne's text. Which makes Bourth's answer the correct one in my view. Abject apologies to all.

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Note added at 18 hrs (2009-06-07 16:13:11 GMT)
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It is a commentary anyway, isn't it, not a translation.
Dear me.

Susan Nicholls
Local time: 12:33
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English

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