argentiers

21:16 Jan 26, 2009 

Yes, thanks Rachel, I am certainly aware of the term, but less familiar with it in EN; put it this way, when I worked in a UK catering college yonks ago, we trained 'commis chefs', but I can't actually recall having heard the term 'commis waiter' — even though now, working for a catering college over here, of course I hear it all the time.

20:50 Jan 26, 2009 

this was in the '40s, but there are still commis waiters http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1419708/Beverley-... http://jobs.trovit.co.uk/jobs/commis-waiter-london - suppose I'll get ticked off for putting links here...

10:08 Jan 26, 2009 

In the 1940s, hotel cutlery would have been silver plate, not stainless steel. It, therefore, required polishing, as did the other silverware (serving dishes etc.). This was very time consuming, so looking after the silverware would have been a much larger job than it would be nowdays. Are argentiers the people who clean and polish the silverware, or the person in charge of them (a steward)? I suspect, as it is plural, that it means the former.

22:19 Jan 25, 2009 

...is definitely the term used in EN too (though I think usually only in the sense of a chef, not a waiter)

21:55 Jan 25, 2009 

Well Kashew, I'm already doing that with the "commis" in the previous sentence, but cooking friends tell me it's usually left in French in culinary circles. I'm seeing things much more clearly thanks to all the discussions and think I can avoid a cop-out!!

21:52 Jan 25, 2009 

thanks Tony, after subsequently hesitating about whether this referred to two functions and then two objects, I have definitely gone back to my original idea that we are talking about functions. I still don't understand why the first two are feminine and the last two masculine but still. It would sound quite comical à la réflexion for someone to talk about not being able to distinguish a silver cabinet from a dresser, particularly as they are likely to contain silver-ware and crockery, but as you say, the uniforms would be a different thing altogether

21:48 Jan 25, 2009 

Especially if this was a 1940s French hotel then you could opt for keeping the French names? Like one might retain "garçon" in an English translation. (Not a very good comparison, I know).

21:29 Jan 25, 2009 

I remain convinced, like Asker, that this refers to functions rather than furniture.

It is clear that the list starts off referring to people and their jobs, and the fact that their uniforms distinguish between them in some cases.

But no-one in their right mind would every get confused between a dresser for china and a silver-cabinet; however, the person dealing with china and the person dealing with silver-ware might well wear the same uniform, for example. I feel sure your original idea was correct — even though I don't know if specific terms exist for these particular functions in EN.