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French to English translations [PRO] Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
French term or phrase:Il fallait y penser
As it happens, this is from a text about the French philosopher Deleuze criticizing the French "new" philosopher BHL for using marketing techniques in the domain of philosophy: "Il fallait y penser!" It seems to me there are maybe two uses of this phrase, one to mean "It had to be done", in the sense of it being inevitable; the other is slightly different, in the sense of: "C'est tellement simple, mais il fallait y penser!" as a sort of reaction to serendipity, as it were... I'm sure we must have similar reactions in English, (US English please!) but I'm blowed if I can think of the appropriate expression. All help gratefully received. Thanks as ever.
It seems a pity to put an end to all these wonderful ideas, may of which would have been brilliant. This one is the closest to the actual meaning of the SL phrase in my context I think, and also has the understated elegance I associate with Dz. 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
I should add, the whole thing is my fault for suggesting the idea of inevitability in the first place, that was my interpretation of the expression in context (a kind of "groan" reaction to BHL, which I don't think was incorrect as an interpretation, but not good translation practice).
I was still worrying about all of this washing the dishes this morning... It's the falloir/modal business that is causing the problem I think, simply because it can mean a number of different things. The best I could come up with (up to the elbows in suds) was: "You just had to come up with the idea". Can't say it has much of a ring to it! Or "it just needed someone to come up with the idea", which is closest to Martin's. In the particular case of the Deleuze text though, I am happy with Carol's suggestion.
Excellent question. Thanks! I still don't think there is any idea of inevitability here. 2nd exampe: c'est simple, il fallait y penser = It's simple, though someone still had think of it. The other one (first one) = That took some thinking!
Well, closing the question hasn't stopped the discussion, I think 24 hours is a fair time frame. Carol, please don't get me wrong, your answer did the trick, and it is for the reasons you say that I chose it - not adding anything that wasn't in the source text: neat and efficient! I think there were two things: my need to find a solution for a particular problem, and my interest in knowing more generally what the equivalent saying might be in everyday life. I've been lucky to get lots of input on both fronts!
Susan, I think this question is an excellent example of why a question should be left open. Part of the deal is that the community (now and in the future) also benefits from the discussion -- any link to client deadlines exists only in the asker's mind !!
...and don't forget, it's not up to us to read the author's mind - ie, beware of over-interpreting, or adding explanations that don't exist in the source text. This should only ever be done when a cultural difference exists - which isn't the case here.
I can see where you are coming from and the more I think about it, the less sure I am about the distinction I made (inevitability vs. good idea). Maybe such are the joys of irony? "Whoever would have thought it?" rather than "It had to happen sometime"? I must admit I still don't see, if the usual French expression is something like: "c'est si simple, il fallait y penser" (no irony), what would the English equivalent be? Maybe just: "What a good idea!" I closed the question just because I had to meet the deadline on the the translation.
I don't think at all that it's about "inevitability", but rather an imitation of the French expression "il faut le faire/il fallait le faire" (to indicate amazement) where "le faire" is replaced by "y penser".
It's sarcastic praise when he's saying his idea is amazing. Il fallait y penser = Who would have ever thought of that? (as if it's so amazing that he thought of marketing techniques in the domain of philosophy - NOT!!!)
I know that this question is closed. But, I'm wondering if "il fallait y penser" means something similar to "Il fallait le faire" (that's amazing!) Who would have ever thought of that?("that's amazing to have thought of that" said sarcastically)?
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
4 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
That's all that we need!
Explanation: Just a stab. Pretty unsure.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 6 mins (2008-07-24 22:58:17 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Or more contemporary: somebody had to do it!
Helen Shiner United Kingdom Local time: 05:50 Native speaker of: English
Notes to answerer
Asker: Yes, somebody had to do it is certainly better than it had to be done. Thanks!
9 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +1
Someone was bound to think of it
Explanation: or Someone had to think of it
Carol Gullidge United Kingdom Local time: 05:50 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 47
Grading comment
It seems a pity to put an end to all these wonderful ideas, may of which would have been brilliant. This one is the closest to the actual meaning of the SL phrase in my context I think, and also has the understated elegance I associate with Dz.
Explanation: Just an idea (if it refers to the inevitability)
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2008-07-25 01:47:59 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Agree with your point, Susan. I was thinking of how a philosopher, faced with all this marketing stuff might conclude (philosophically), "Why shouldn't we have to put up with it like everybody else?" My answer sort of came from that angle. Think Melissa's idea is an improvement though!
Dave 72 United Kingdom Local time: 05:50 Works in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks! This is a good one. Although it does connotate punishment a bit (if you Google it all sorts of frightening stuff comes up!)
Asker: "We should have seen it coming" would be a pretty good translation in my context.
I'm not sure Dz was resigned to BHL, I get the impression he was pretty close to furious with the whole business, but he didn't enjoy wasting his energy in that way (and rightly so!)
Anyway, as for what was the rpoblem with translating the phrase, it is so common in French, I was sure there must be an equally common one in English - something with "seen it coming" is probably it.
I like Helen's and Dave's suggestions, and Melissa's contributions but I do think that it would be good to keep 'think' or 'idea' in the En because that's what these guys are all about. He's criticising BHL's thoughts, his ideas, his philosophy. I don't think he's suggesting that if BHL hadn't done it somebody else would have.
Emma Paulay France Local time: 06:50 Works in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 35
(1st: That took some thinking!) (2nd: It's simple, but still someone had to come up with the idea)
Explanation: Hello,
1st example: Il fallait y penser!
This is like saying "il fallait le faire" and replace "le faire" by "y penser". In other words, it means "That took some thinking" instead of saying "That took some doing!"
2nd example (which I'm more sure of)
C'est simple, il faut y penser/il fallait y penser = Something may be simple, but, still, someone has to come with the idea
I'm not going to comment on irony here, as I don't understand the context well enough.
I hope this helps.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 28 days (2008-08-22 01:33:13 GMT) Post-grading --------------------------------------------------
I'm not really in agreement in Emma Pauley's translation. For some reason, I am unable to delete my agree on this webpage. It's really strange....
MatthewLaSon Local time: 01:50 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 30
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