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faux notoire

English translation: obvious forgery

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:faux notoire
English translation:obvious forgery
Entered by: Barbara Cochran, MFA

22:59 Jan 17, 2008
French to English translations [PRO]
History / Forged Documents
French term or phrase: faux notoire
Context:

"Si cette donation est un **faux notoire,** plein d'erreurs de latin et d'incohérences, qui a été utilisé pour revendiquer la possession des territoires nommés,..

Merci!

femme
Barbara Cochran, MFA
United States
Local time: 00:24
obvious forgery
Explanation:
Or if you want to be a bit different: "patently a forgery".

"The eternal Imperium would like to state it's disgust at this **obvious forgery**. It is an attempt by the government of RomeW to make Rome look like the cradle ..."

"The letter, however, is so **patently a forgery** that it has made the Islamic Democratic Alliance look foolish. Apart from the inexplicably formal salutation, ..."
www.chowk.com/ilogs/64163/36997
forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=394349&page=2 - 115k
Selected response from:

B D Finch
France
Local time: 06:24
Grading comment
Merci beaucoup!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +6obvious forgery
B D Finch
3 +3notorious forgery
Paul Cohen
4 +2known to be a forgery
Bourth (X)
5evident falsification
Vittorio Ferretti
4blatant piece of forgery
Euqinimod (X)


  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
evident falsification


Explanation:
Pippin's donation?

Vittorio Ferretti
Local time: 06:24
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  writeaway: why 100% confidence with so many possibilities and why no refs?
2 hrs
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17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
obvious forgery


Explanation:
Or if you want to be a bit different: "patently a forgery".

"The eternal Imperium would like to state it's disgust at this **obvious forgery**. It is an attempt by the government of RomeW to make Rome look like the cradle ..."

"The letter, however, is so **patently a forgery** that it has made the Islamic Democratic Alliance look foolish. Apart from the inexplicably formal salutation, ..."
www.chowk.com/ilogs/64163/36997
forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=394349&page=2 - 115k


B D Finch
France
Local time: 06:24
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 35
Grading comment
Merci beaucoup!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Paul Cohen: You were faster, BD. / with 'patently a forgery'
2 mins
  -> Thanks Paul.
agree  Carol Gullidge: also like "patently ..."
21 mins
  -> Thanks Carol
agree  Cervin
35 mins
  -> Thanks Cervin
agree  Bourth (X): Sorry, didn't read beyond your title at first. I like "patently".
49 mins
  -> Thanks Bourth
agree  Attorney DC Bar: or, a patent forgery
6 hrs
  -> Thanks rufinus.
agree  Victoria Porter-Burns: or 'blatant forgery'.
8 hrs
  -> Thanks Victoria. Yes, though blatant is stronger and perhaps stronger than "notoire", which may be perfectly OK.
neutral  Najib Aloui: "notoire" = known to everybody . Something may be "notoire", known to everybody, "famous" and not "obvious".
19 hrs
  -> True, if you want to translate literally word-for-word; however, what I was suggesting was the expression(s) that I thought fitted the ideas best when writing in English. What is "obvious" or "patent" could reasonably be expected to be widely known.
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14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
notorious forgery


Explanation:
For example:

"Le protocole des sages de Sion, un faux notoire et antisémite..."
http://www.voxdei.org/afficher_info.php?id=4629.89

"The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" has taken root in bigoted, frightened minds around the world. The booklet’s twenty-four sections spell out the alleged secret plans of Jewish leaders seeking to attain world domination. They represent the most notorious political forgery of modern times."
http://www.adl.org/special_reports/protocols/protocols_intro...



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Note added at 19 mins (2008-01-17 23:18:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or, less nefarious, and probably more appropriate, an "obvious forgery" ;-)


Paul Cohen
Greenland
Local time: 03:24
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  B D Finch: "Notoire" doesn't necessarily have the same negative connotations as "notorious" does in English.
5 mins
  -> Yes, I agree, although "un criminel notoire" would be "a notorious criminal". Notorious may or may not fit this context. In any case, it's patently a forgery!
agree  Carol Gullidge: I think notorious does fit - if it was widely known to be a fake
25 mins
  -> It might fit and, as usual, we'd need more context to know for sure. In any case, it's a delicious word in English with that dual connotation of 'widely known' and 'criminal intent'
agree  writeaway: lots of suggestions in the dictionaries. you have to see the whole text and then you make up your mind (or you ask others). notorious is less likely (a bit of a false friend) but who knows?
1 hr
  -> Right, Writeaway, it might actually fit like a glove with its meaning of "criminal intent". We'd have to see the whole text to know for sure.
agree  Najib Aloui
19 hrs
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27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
known to be a forgery


Explanation:
... is, by public knowledge, a forgery ...

I don't think "notoire" qualifies "faux" as such, but explains that it was something everyone knew about.

"notoire" is more akin to "notoriety" than to "notorious" (which has negative connotations) IMO.

NOTOIRE - Se dit de choses ou de personnes qui sont connues de tous : Son mauvais caractère est notoire syn. RECONNU). Le fait est notoire (syn. PUBLIC).

Carla Bruni is currently the "maîtresse notoire" of Czar Cosy, not because there is anything sinister about her, simply because they are making no secret of the fact.

"Notoire" du latin "notus" signifiant "publiquement connu", est utilisé comme adjectif pour exprimer que la situation ainsi qualifiée était connue ou était susceptible d'être connue d'un très grand nombre de personnes. Dans certaines occasions, la loi permet au juge de tirer des effets de droit de la connaissance populaire de situations qui permettent d'induire l'existence d'un fait qu'il serait impossible d'établir au moyen d'une preuve directe.
http://www.dictionnaire-juridique.com/definition/notoire.php

Au vu et au su de tous.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 29 mins (2008-01-17 23:28:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The reasons for hitting Iraq a few years ago were "notoirement faux". That didn't stop it happening. I imagine in the Middle Ages it was even easier to justify events with falsehoods that everyone knew to be false.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-01-18 00:07:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In the second line above, imagine "qualifies" in bold, italics, or caps, for stress.

Bourth (X)
Local time: 06:24
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 154

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Christopher Crockett: Yes, closer to _notus_ than to our "notorious."
14 hrs
agree  Najib Aloui
19 hrs
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15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
blatant piece of forgery


Explanation:
Just to have a go at it!

Euqinimod (X)
Local time: 06:24
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 8
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