حدباء

English translation: bier/ very difficult state

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Arabic term or phrase:حدباء
English translation:bier/ very difficult state
Entered by: Saleh Dardeer

23:19 Nov 28, 2007
Arabic to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / Proverbs
Arabic term or phrase: حدباء
كل إبن إنثى وإن طالت سلامته يوماً على آلة حدباء محمول

I know what the saying means - we all will be carried on our palls when we die, no matter how long we live, but I need a good word for "hadba'a" because the request is for literal and not literary translation.
Sam Berner
Australia
Local time: 12:11
bier/ very difficult state
Explanation:
First of all, let's refer to the definition in Arabic lexicons

under the entry of آلة it is stated in Lisaan Al-'Arab

والآلة الحالة والجمع الآلُ يقال هو بآلة سوء قال الراجز قد أَرْكَبُ الآلَةَ بعد الآله وأَتْرُك العاجِزَ بالجَدَالَه والآلة الجَنازة والآلة سرير الميت هذه عن أَبي العَمَيْثَل وبها فسر قول كعب بن زهير كُلُّ ابنِ أُنْثَى وإِن طالَتْ سَلاَمَتُه يوماً على آلَةٍ حَدْباءَ محمول

Accordingly, it could be translated as "bier" because the coffin is put on it.

It is also stated under the entry of حدب

وحالةٌ حَدْباءُ لا يَطْمَئنُّ لها صاحِبُها كأَنَّ لها حَدَبةً قال
وإِني لَشَرُّ الناسِ إِنْ لم أُبِتْهُمُ ... عَلى آلةٍ حَدْباءَ نابِيةِ الظَّهْرِ
[ ص 301 ] والحَدَبُ حدُورٌ في صَبَبٍ كَحَدَبِ الرِّيحِ والرَّملِ وفي التنزيل العزيز وهُم مِن كُلِّ حَدَبٍ يَنْسِلُون وفي حديث يأْجُوجَ مأْجوجَ وهم مِن كل حَدَب يَنْسِلُون يريد يَظْهَرُون من غَلِيظِ الأَرض ومُرْتَفِعها وقال الفرَّاءُ مِنْ كُلّ حَدَبٍ يَنْسِلُونَ مِنْ كُلِّ أَكَمَةٍ ومن كل مَوْضِع مُرْتَفِعٍ والجَمْعُ أَحْدابٌ وحِدابٌ والحَدَبُ الغِلَظُ من الأَرض في ارْتِفاع والجمع الحِدابُ والحَدَبةُ ما أَشْرَفَ مِن الأَرض وغَلُظَ وارْتَفَعَ ولا تكون الحَدَبةُ إِلاَّ في قُفٍّ أَو غِلَظِ أَرضٍ وفي قصيد كعب بن زهير
كُلُّ ابنِ أُنْثَى وإِنْ طالَتْ سَلامَتُه ... يَوْماً عَلى آلةٍ حَدْباءَ مَحْمُولُ
يريد على النَّعْشِ وقيل أَراد بالآلة الحالةَ وبالحَدْباءِ الصَّعْبةَ الشديدة وفيها أَيضاً

Here comes the other sense that it means "very difficult state"

HTH
Selected response from:

Saleh Dardeer
Grading comment
Thank you
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5bier / pall
Steve Booth
5curved
Sayed Moustafa talawy
4bier/ very difficult state
Saleh Dardeer
1 +2Pack animal
Khalid Nasir


Discussion entries: 7





  

Answers


41 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
bier/ very difficult state


Explanation:
First of all, let's refer to the definition in Arabic lexicons

under the entry of آلة it is stated in Lisaan Al-'Arab

والآلة الحالة والجمع الآلُ يقال هو بآلة سوء قال الراجز قد أَرْكَبُ الآلَةَ بعد الآله وأَتْرُك العاجِزَ بالجَدَالَه والآلة الجَنازة والآلة سرير الميت هذه عن أَبي العَمَيْثَل وبها فسر قول كعب بن زهير كُلُّ ابنِ أُنْثَى وإِن طالَتْ سَلاَمَتُه يوماً على آلَةٍ حَدْباءَ محمول

Accordingly, it could be translated as "bier" because the coffin is put on it.

It is also stated under the entry of حدب

وحالةٌ حَدْباءُ لا يَطْمَئنُّ لها صاحِبُها كأَنَّ لها حَدَبةً قال
وإِني لَشَرُّ الناسِ إِنْ لم أُبِتْهُمُ ... عَلى آلةٍ حَدْباءَ نابِيةِ الظَّهْرِ
[ ص 301 ] والحَدَبُ حدُورٌ في صَبَبٍ كَحَدَبِ الرِّيحِ والرَّملِ وفي التنزيل العزيز وهُم مِن كُلِّ حَدَبٍ يَنْسِلُون وفي حديث يأْجُوجَ مأْجوجَ وهم مِن كل حَدَب يَنْسِلُون يريد يَظْهَرُون من غَلِيظِ الأَرض ومُرْتَفِعها وقال الفرَّاءُ مِنْ كُلّ حَدَبٍ يَنْسِلُونَ مِنْ كُلِّ أَكَمَةٍ ومن كل مَوْضِع مُرْتَفِعٍ والجَمْعُ أَحْدابٌ وحِدابٌ والحَدَبُ الغِلَظُ من الأَرض في ارْتِفاع والجمع الحِدابُ والحَدَبةُ ما أَشْرَفَ مِن الأَرض وغَلُظَ وارْتَفَعَ ولا تكون الحَدَبةُ إِلاَّ في قُفٍّ أَو غِلَظِ أَرضٍ وفي قصيد كعب بن زهير
كُلُّ ابنِ أُنْثَى وإِنْ طالَتْ سَلامَتُه ... يَوْماً عَلى آلةٍ حَدْباءَ مَحْمُولُ
يريد على النَّعْشِ وقيل أَراد بالآلة الحالةَ وبالحَدْباءِ الصَّعْبةَ الشديدة وفيها أَيضاً

Here comes the other sense that it means "very difficult state"

HTH


    Reference: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=7324&dict=CAL...
Saleh Dardeer
Does not meet criteria
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic
PRO pts in category: 74
Grading comment
Thank you
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
bier / pall


Explanation:
As Assem said bier is probably the best translation as it is the more common of the words. If you are going to use it as coffin or casket you could also leave it as PALL one of the meanings of this word in English is coffin but i would go with Assem's suggestion of bier

Steve Booth
Local time: 03:11
Meets criteria
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
curved


Explanation:
آلة حدباء
Wooden curved ballet
والألة الحدباء هي النعش وليست الجنازة نفسها

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2007-11-29 11:16:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

الأحدب / المقوس

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2007-11-29 11:17:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

i see it so simple here

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2007-11-29 11:18:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

وايضا من الصحيح في بيت الشعر
كل حي وإن طالت سلامته يوما علي آلة حدباء محمول

Sayed Moustafa talawy
Local time: 04:11
Does not meet criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic
PRO pts in category: 10
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Pack animal


Explanation:
As described in my notes to the Asker.
It is strange to suggest against what is commonly known but I will take this risk.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2007-11-29 11:57:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Dear Saleh Al-Qammaari: I did not mean you , but the belief of most people and poetry interpreters that Hadba is an adjective for the dead casket

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2007-11-29 12:16:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

وَلَوْ أَنَّ صَبِيًّا حُمِلَ فِي سَفَطٍ عَلَى دَابَّةٍ فَصَلَّوْا عَلَيْهَا وَهُوَ عَلَى الدَّابَّةِ لَمْ تُجْزِهِمْ صَلَاتُهُمْ ؛ لِأَنَّهُمْ أُمِرُوا بِالصَّلَاةِ عَلَى الْجِنَازَةِ وَهُمْ إنَّمَا صَلَّوْا عَلَى الدَّابَّةِ وَهَذَا اسْتِحْسَانٌ ، وَفِي الْقِيَاسِ يَجُوزُ وَهُوَ نَظِيرُ الْقِيَاسِ ، وَالِاسْتِحْسَانُ فِيمَا إذَا كَانَ الْمُصَلِّي عَلَى الدَّابَّةِ ، فَإِنَّ فِي الْقِيَاسِ يَجُوزُ ؛ لِأَنَّ الصَّلَاةَ عَلَى الْمَيِّتِ دُعَاءٌ وَدُعَاءُ الرَّاكِبِ وَالنَّازِلِ سَوَاءٌ وَفِي الِاسْتِحْسَانِ لَا يَجُوزُ ؛ لِأَنَّ الرُّكْنَ فِي الصَّلَاةِ عَلَى الْجِنَازَةِ التَّكْبِيرَاتُ وَالْقِيَامُ فَكَمَا لَا تَتَأَدَّى بِدُونِ التَّكْبِيرَاتِ لَا تَتَأَدَّى بِدُونِ الْقِيَامِ مِنْ غَيْرِ عُذْرٍ وَإِذَا ثَبَتَ هَذَا فِيمَا إذَا كَانَ الْمُصَلِّي عَلَى الدَّابَّةِ فَكَذَلِكَ إذَا كَانَ الْمَيِّتُ عَلَى الدَّابَّةِ وَاَللَّهُ سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَى أَعْلَمُ بِالصَّوَابِ .

http://www.islamport.com/b/2/alfeqh/hanafi/��� ����/�������_1/������� 014.h...

Khalid Nasir
Iraq
Local time: 05:11
Does not meet criteria
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  AhmedAMS: There is no risk involved. Pack animal (or sumpter) is the smartest translation of the meaningless (آلة حدباء).
10 mins
  -> thanks Ahmed

neutral  Saleh Dardeer: Firstly, this is contrary to Arabic lexical meaning of this expression. Secondly, what about the word "آلة">>it seems that u didn't read my answer i never said hadbaa is an adjective in this context
58 mins
  -> I have never accepted that “حدباء” as an adjective to the dead casket since secondary school, while it is possible to interpret “ آله ” is a loading or transport mean.

agree  Mohsin Alabdali
23 hrs
  -> thanks for your support
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search