one-fold

Arabic translation: wrong expression in English,pls read explanation below

01:13 Nov 19, 2007

English to Arabic translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Other

English term or phrase: one-fold

In a table that compares between two gases used in welding, the row comparing "cost of purchase" looks as follows:

Material: Argon, Helium

Cost: one-fold, five-fold

How would you express "one-fold"?

Alaa Zeineldine KudoZ activity Questions: 228 (none open) (28 closed without grading) Answers: 1145 Egypt
Local time: 04:13

Arabic translation:wrong expression in English,pls read explanation below

Explanation:
Firstly, is the source text written by native English speaker? The expression "one-fold" seems to me that it is a wrong expression .

"-fold" used as a suffix, means
1. Divided into a specified number of parts: fivefold.
2. Multiplied by a specified number: fiftyfold.
http://www.answers.com/-fold

and twofold /two-fold means" twice as great or many", in other words it means "double".
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/two-fold

when someone say "one fold" it doesn't mean by that comparing the quantity or percentage,etc. the word "fold" here has the other meanings, for example:
1. one fold of the door شطر الباب
2. one fold and one shepherd ( as in Bible / John 10:16 ),which means enclosure for sheep; (fig)body of religious believers,members of a Church.
as mentioned in the following link
"Catholics often use the expression, "One fold and one shepherd" to sustain the doctrine of the papacy. (See Catechism For Adults, p. 59). They teach that the "one shepherd" is the Pope and the "one fold" represents the Catholic Church"
http://www.thebiblespeaks.com/Articles/FalseTeachings/Denomi...

3. "He folded the paper with one fold"

*************
then let's look at this term from the Arabic side. which is " dhi'af"
as for the meaning of "dhi'af" , I would like to quote the explanation for it from the dictionary
الضعف: ضعف الشيء أو العدد: مثله أو هو الذي يثنيه
فالأصل في معنى ضعف: أضيف إلى العدد أن يكون ذلك العدد و مثله
فضعف الواحد اثنان
و ضعف العشرة عشرون و هكذا
و ضعفا الشيء أو العدد: هو مثلاه مضافين إليه: أي ثلاثة أمثاله فإن قيل: أعطه ضعفى واحد فالمعنى: ثلاثة
و بذلك فسر بعضهم قوله تعالى" ربنا آتهم ضعفين من العذاب" أي ثلاثة أعذبة
و على هذا يكون أضعاف العدد أربعة أمثاله على الأقل
**************
based on the explanations of the dictionary for the word of "dhi'af"
two-fold ( which means double) = ضعف الشيء/العدد
three-fold = ضعفا الشيء/العدد (أي: ضعفين)كما ذكر أعلاه في شرح معناه
four-fold = ثلاثة أضعاف الشيء/العدد
و هكذا

*********
conclusion:
1. "one-fold" ( fold as a suffix) using as to compare the quantity or percentage, this expression is incorrect.
2. ضعف لا يساوى ضعفين
3. ضعف = two-fold
4. if we have to say the quantity or percentage is the same as something, we can use " the same as/ as much as/ as many as"
in Arabic, we can use "mithlu" مثل

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days1 hr (2007-11-22 02:54:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the explanation of "dhi'af" quoted above is from the dictionary
المعجم الوسيط

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days2 hrs (2007-11-22 03:16:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

as the questioner mentioned in his quesition, the word of "-fold" is used to compare ""cost of purchase" "
based on this, assuming that the term of "one-fold" is correct in English,the translation for that can be:

نفس الثمن
=two-foldضعف الثمن
ضعفا الثمن= three-fold
ثلاثة أضعاف الثمن= four-fold
أربعة أضعاف الثمن
و هكذا
*************

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days2 hrs (2007-11-22 03:18:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

نفس الثمن= one-fold
ضعف الثمن = two-fold
ضعفا الثمن= three-fold
ثلاثة أضعاف الثمن= four-fold
أربعة أضعاف الثمن =five-fold
و هكذا

Selected response from:

lhcm
Local time: 10:13

Grading comment

Thanks to all who tried to help. I used a translation that attempts to preserve the same level of ambiguity as the original text. For one-fold, I used الثمن, and خمسة أضعاف الثمن for five-fold. While there are other good solutions, If found this to be the closest the translation I used.
2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

3 +8

ضعف و خمس أضعاف

Saleh Ayyub

4 +3

قيمة النصاب، قيمة قياسية أو معيارية

Fuad Yahya

مفرد و خمسة أضعاف

Mohammad Zahidul Islam

قدرها مره

zax

wrong expression in English,pls read explanation below

lhcm

ضعف "1-5 "ـ

Mohamed Salaheldin

السعر الأصلي أوالعادي أو المتفق عليه في قائمة التسعير

Neamaat Shehatah

Discussion entries: 5

Answers

9 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +8

ضعف و خمس أضعاف

Explanation:
صالح

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-11-19 02:34:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

ضعف means double, and two-folds means ضعفين
hope this would help

Saleh

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-11-19 03:03:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

There is: ضعف ضعفي ضعفين, reference:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls...

Saleh Ayyub
New Zealand
Local time: 14:13
Native speaker of:

Arabic,

English
PRO pts in category: 42

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks Saleh. The problem with ضعف is that it is the same as double or two-fold. I don't think it would work for one-fold.

Asker: I believe that ضعف and ضعفين are the same.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Noha Kamal, PhD.: Yes, ضعف واحد

7 mins

agree

Saleh Dardeer: but خمسة أضعاف for five-fold

8 mins

agree

Fuad Yahya: The confusing part is the absence of a baseline, i.e., "one fold" of what? If these is no indication of a cost baseline, then I would presueme that whichever gas is listed as "one fold" is meant to be the baseline. والله أعلم

55 mins

agree

Assem Mazloum:

1 hr

agree

Hasan Abu Khalil

4 hrs

agree

Mohsin Alabdali: I think Noha has solved the problem by adding واحد

7 hrs

agree

Abdallah Ali

8 hrs

agree

abdurrahman: ضعف وخمس أضعاف

20 hrs

neutral

lhcm: ضعفين و ضعف معناهما مختلفان.... الرجاء قراءة شرحي...شكرا

3 days 1 hr

2 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

قيمة النصاب، قيمة قياسية أو معيارية

Explanation:
النصاب هو الأصل أو المرجع، كما جاء في المنجد، أي هو المعيار الذي تُقاس به الأضعاف. ولزيادة الإيضاح، بالإمكان استعمال عبارة نصاب قياسي أو معياري

Fuad Yahya
Native speaker of:

Arabic,

English
PRO pts in category: 94

3 hrs confidence:

مفرد و خمسة أضعاف

Explanation:
مفرد و خمسة أضعاف

Mohammad Zahidul Islam
Bangladesh
Local time: 08:13
Native speaker of:

Bengali,

Arabic

8 hrs confidence:

ضعف "1-5 "ـ

Explanation:
يمكن ذكرها بهذا الشكل في الجدول

Mohamed Salaheldin
Egypt
Local time: 04:13
Native speaker of:

Arabic
PRO pts in category: 16

1 day 12 hrs confidence:

قدرها مره

Explanation:
قدها مره
قدها خمس مرات

zax
Local time: 22:13
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Arabic,

English
PRO pts in category: 44

3 days 1 hr confidence:

wrong expression in English,pls read explanation below

lhcm
Local time: 10:13
Native speaker of:

Chinese
PRO pts in category: 6

Grading comment

Notes to answerer

Asker: You are right about the English expression. This course handout was authored in German then translated into English. However, it seems the intention was to make everything relative to the other regardless of what the actual cost is.

6 days confidence:

السعر الأصلي أوالعادي أو المتفق عليه في قائمة التسعير

Explanation:
*

Neamaat Shehatah
Egypt
Local time: 04:13
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Arabic
PRO pts in category: 6

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