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savoir v connaissance

English translation: knowledge v understanding

21:34 Oct 10, 2007
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
French term or phrase: savoir v connaissance
From a text defining the difference between technique and techonology: "Ce qui est technique, ce n’est pas le savoir ou la connaissance théorique, ce ne sont pas les propositions de la théorie pure." The difficulty here is to find two separate words for the one English word usually used for both, i.e. knowledge.
Steven Durose
France
Local time: 11:00
English translation:knowledge v understanding
Explanation:
Understanding being deeper and more experience-based than "mere" knowledge.
Selected response from:

B D Finch
France
Local time: 11:00
Grading comment
Thanks for everyone's help! I preferred this answer since "savoir" had already been translated as "knowledge" in a quote within the text I was translating, so for the sake of consistency I stuck to knowledge/understanding, rather than erudition/knowledge, which (thanks Melissa) I found equally convincing in the context!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +7knowledge v understanding
B D Finch
4 +2erudition v knowledge
Melissa McMahon
4knowledge/knowhow
Bourth (X)
3Culture and knowledge
Micaela Genchi


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +7
knowledge v understanding


Explanation:
Understanding being deeper and more experience-based than "mere" knowledge.

B D Finch
France
Local time: 11:00
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 78
Grading comment
Thanks for everyone's help! I preferred this answer since "savoir" had already been translated as "knowledge" in a quote within the text I was translating, so for the sake of consistency I stuck to knowledge/understanding, rather than erudition/knowledge, which (thanks Melissa) I found equally convincing in the context!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Michel A.: imho, understanding is the translation of "compréhension" not really "connaissance"
2 mins
  -> This is an example of why one cannot assume a 1:1 match between words in different languages.
agree  katsy: This link explains "connaissance", and fully justifies your proposal :-)http://www.cnrtl.fr/lexicographie/connaissance
6 mins
  -> Thanks katsy for that amazingly useful link. It is now bookmarked and I cannot think how I failed to have known (as opposed to "understood") about it. It will greatly add to both my knowledge and my understanding of French.
agree  Jennifer Levey
55 mins
  -> Thanks mediamatrix.
agree  Mohamed Mehenoun: for me connaissance and savoir are the same basically but I like this one...
1 hr
  -> Thanks Mohamed. They are really not the same. Check out katsy's link, which comprehensively explains the difference.
agree  Cervin: This is a commonly used phrase in education at least. Lots of Ghits eg http://www.lums.lancs.ac.uk/masters/MAHRMandKM/Knowledge/
1 hr
  -> Thanks Cervin
agree  Jean-Claude Gouin: I agree with Mohamed ... and with Michel ... It's difficult to explain my ambivalence ...
1 hr
  -> Thanks 1045. See katsy's useful link.
agree  Assimina Vavoula
7 hrs
  -> Thanks Assimina.
agree  Karen Stokes
7 hrs
  -> Thanks Karen
agree  suezen
9 hrs
  -> Thanks suezen.
neutral  Gabrielle Leyden: I think I heard one day that "savoir" is more specific or practical knowledge - look up def especially in education
1 day 9 hrs
  -> I think that, in this instance, it is about the manner of acquisition of the knowledge rather than the nature of the matter being learned.
disagree  siragui: No amount of etymology can prove what the value of a word is in a specific context. "Connaissances théoriques" is emphatically not "understanding". It implies learning of a pre-established body of theory.
1 day 11 hrs
  -> One can learn theory like a parrot, or learn it with understanding; that is the distinction that is made by the use of the word "connaissances". That it is a pre-established body of theory does not change this. What is important is the kind of learning.
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19 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Culture and knowledge


Explanation:
...Seulement une idée

Micaela Genchi
Italy
Local time: 11:00
Native speaker of: Italian
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
knowledge/knowhow


Explanation:
But which is which?

Bourth (X)
Local time: 11:00
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 38

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  B D Finch: I think that "knowhow" is more technical. Particular commercial "knowhow" can be contractually protected, while "understanding" cannot be.
9 hrs
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10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
erudition v knowledge


Explanation:
This started out as just a note but has turned into a suggestion:

The note: your sentence is not actually opposing "savoir" to "connaissance", but both "le savoir ou la connaissance théorique" to "technique".

I think the terms knowledge/understanding could still work - ie "it's not knowledge or theoretical understanding, it's not the propositions of pure theory", but the conceptual distinction between savoir and connaissance doesn't come into play here - it may elsewhere in the text.

If there's a meaningful distinction to be made between "savoir" and "connaissance théorique" (rather than savoir/connaissance tout court), this could possibly be expressed as the difference between "erudition" and "theoretical knowledge"...


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Note added at 10 hrs (2007-10-11 08:09:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I guess the point of the note is that I think it would be a mistake here to translate "connaissance théorique" as "theoretical know-how" or "theoretical culture", or any other word for "connaissance" that implies a major distinction from "knowledge". The fact that it's "theorique" means, to me, that its every bit as institutional, formal etc. as any "savoir".

Melissa McMahon
Australia
Local time: 19:00
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 28

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  B D Finch: Per your 2nd sentence: theoretical knowledge and understanding are being contrasted with "technique". Theoretical knowledge and theoretical understanding are used here as complementary, not opposed to each other.
21 mins
  -> I agree, I don't see any opposition here. It's not clear to me whether the "theorique" qualifies both savoir and connaissance, but either way I agree it is not a traditional savoir/connaissance opposition, but "theorie" et "technique"
agree  Michel A.: I fully agree (BTW "théorique" qualifies only "connaissance") savoir => savant => érudition
3 hrs
  -> That's how I read it (the qualification), yes. Thanks for unpacking "savoir" too.
agree  siragui: I wholeheartedly subscribe to your explanation, though you're charitable about accepting "understanding" in this sentence.
1 day 1 hr
  -> as a standalone (eg. "knowledge or understanding"), I wouldn't think it was acceptable, but attached to "theoretical" and beside "knowledge", I think it probably 'reads' as "theoretical knowledge"
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