This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
  1. KudoZ™ Top
  2. French to English
  3. General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters

Quand on vous lave le dos, vous devez faire l’effort de vous rincer le ventre

English translation: You only help those who help themselves

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:Quand on vous lave le dos, vous devez faire l’effort de vous rincer le ventre
English translation:You only help those who help themselves
Entered by: Rachel Mackay

07:27 Sep 30, 2007
French to English translations [PRO]
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters / a metaphor
French term or phrase: Quand on vous lave le dos, vous devez faire l’effort de vous rincer le ventre
It's a metaphor used by a man to describe a form of taxpayers' compliance and the general fiscal dynamics of a country.
It's a one-off phrase with no further explanation.
I'm looking for something that conveys the message rather than something literal.
All suggestions welcomed.
Thanks
Rachel Mackay
Local time: 13:40
You only help those who help themselves
Explanation:
This seems to fit the bill, although it's difficult to be sure without more context.

The 'you' of course changes as necessary - often it's used with God or the angels - and the metaphor is ancient and often used in a political context

The self-help theme is ancient particularly as the idea that "The gods help those who help themselves" which is
found in Aesop, Aeschylus, Sophocles, and Euripides (see Bartlett 1968). And the Koran attests that "Verily never
will God change the condition of a people until they change it themselves, with their own souls."
www.economics.ucr.edu/seminars/spring04/05-21-04DavidEllerm...
Selected response from:

Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 13:40
Grading comment
Thanks for your help. This seemed to fit the context best in the end.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +6You only help those who help themselves
Sheila Wilson
3 +4"You can't/shouldn't expect it (to be) handed to you on a plate
French2English
3 +1You don't get anything for nothing (+ more below)
Carol Gullidge
3 +1It's all about give and take
Sandra Petch
3 +1If you are given a leg up, it is up to you to build on it.
B D Finch
3If someone opens the door for you, it’s up to you to go through it.
Claire Chapman
3Step up to the (silver) plate
Carmen Archouniani
3 -1You have to/should try to meet them halfway
siragui
3 -1You scratch my back. i'll scratch yours.
Kate Hudson (X)


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


45 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +6
You only help those who help themselves


Explanation:
This seems to fit the bill, although it's difficult to be sure without more context.

The 'you' of course changes as necessary - often it's used with God or the angels - and the metaphor is ancient and often used in a political context

The self-help theme is ancient particularly as the idea that "The gods help those who help themselves" which is
found in Aesop, Aeschylus, Sophocles, and Euripides (see Bartlett 1968). And the Koran attests that "Verily never
will God change the condition of a people until they change it themselves, with their own souls."
www.economics.ucr.edu/seminars/spring04/05-21-04DavidEllerm...


Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 13:40
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 64
Grading comment
Thanks for your help. This seemed to fit the context best in the end.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Dylan Edwards: Perhaps with the specific emphasis: they only help you so far, and you have to do the rest for yourself.
17 mins
  -> Thanks Dylan - Yes, it's possible but difficult to be sure without context
agree  Valérie Lapotre (X): Excellent idea!
1 hr
  -> Thanks
agree  emiledgar: Yes, this was the first thing thazt popped into my mind.
5 hrs
  -> Thanks
agree  Katarina Peters: from "God helps those who help themselves"
5 hrs
  -> Thanks
agree  Jean-Claude Gouin: I agree with you and with Katarina ...
6 hrs
  -> Thanks
neutral  veratek: I don't think the core meaning is about helping or encouraging initiative, it's about agreeing to pay/compliance/exchange for services
22 hrs
  -> It's difficult to tell with so little context, but I didn't think that was the usual meaning of the French metaphor
agree  MDI-IDM
1 day 6 hrs
  -> Thanks
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
"You can't/shouldn't expect it (to be) handed to you on a plate


Explanation:
Just another suggestion, although I like Sheila's answer too and think it is apt.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-09-30 08:39:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

on reflection, you might want to replace 'it' with 'everything' - which might put the point across more strongly...

French2English
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:40
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Carol Gullidge: yes! (depending on more context..)// fits new context well!
1 hr
  -> thanks, Carol - yes, this one could be really malleable!
agree  Sheila Wilson: I like that one too - it fits well within the taxation context // Lovely logic!
2 hrs
  -> And I liked yours - reminds me of a line a play I saw recently, in which a good, God-fearing girl (in prison for shop-lifting) says, in a delightful Caribbean accent: I was taught as a child that God helps them who help themselves! That's why I did it!
agree  veratek: with the "everything" sugg
21 hrs
agree  siragui: My favorite so far. I can just picture the old codger coming out with this!
22 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
You don't get anything for nothing (+ more below)


Explanation:
Nothing (in life) is free

There's a price (to be paid) for everything

These things cost money

etc...


Carol Gullidge
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:40
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 124

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  veratek: (comic relief: Pay and you shall receive - if it doesn't get embezzled on the way...") ;-)
20 hrs
  -> thanks, vera-tech! :-)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
You have to/should try to meet them halfway


Explanation:
Another expression that comes to mind. Not very metaphorical, but clear enough to do the job perhaps.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2007-09-30 10:47:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Carol's ideas made me think of the phrase popularized by sci-fi writer Robert Heinlein and the Chicago economists: TANSTAAFL, "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch!"

I don't expect it's what your taxpayer would be saying, but I couldn't resist mentioning it.

siragui
Local time: 14:40
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Carmen Archouniani: it's not what is meant here. your translation means you have make some sacrifice and give in to someone's ideas.
11 hrs
  -> Huh? I agree about the sacrifice, and stand by it. What's your proposition?
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
It's all about give and take


Explanation:
Just a Sunday morning idea... !
Could maybe do with rephrasing.

Sandra Petch
Local time: 14:40
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 44

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  jeanamons: I think this fits best in the sense that in order for one to reap the benefits from the taxes, the least one can do is pay them!
2 days 19 mins
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
You scratch my back. i'll scratch yours.


Explanation:
I think that's the usual English expression.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2007-09-30 12:44:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry that should read 'You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours."

Kate Hudson (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 14:40
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 7

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Carmen Archouniani: that's not what is meant. your translation means "we help each other".
9 hrs
neutral  Carol Gullidge: funny you should say this, as this was my 1st posting - but then I hid it! (but I still like its idea of mutual assistance!)
20 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
If someone opens the door for you, it’s up to you to go through it.


Explanation:
As I understand this phrase, it is about finishing the job that someone else helps you start. I don't see anything in the phrase that says who you should or should not help so I agree with BD Finch that the obligation is on the one being helped, not the one doing the helping.

Other suggestions include:
You can lead a horse to water, but it’s the horse who must take the drink.
If someone teaches you how to fish, you have to bait the hook/ or catch the fish.



Claire Chapman
Local time: 08:40
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 day 12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Step up to the (silver) plate


Explanation:
i like Sheila's idea but it's up to you to decide if the biblical reference fits in your tax-related text.
I'd go with sth in line of what i suggested making an a mixed version of sth offered on a silver plate and "stepping up to the plate" (as to take the matter in your own hands)


Carmen Archouniani
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ArmenianArmenian
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
If you are given a leg up, it is up to you to build on it.


Explanation:
It is the person who is being helped who is being told to then do what they can for themselves, not the helper who is being told to only help those who help themselves.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days6 hrs (2007-10-02 13:59:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To get rid of the dreadful mixed metaphor:

If you are given a leg up, it is up to you to make an effort too.


B D Finch
France
Local time: 14:40
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 136

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  ormiston: perhaps a slight mixed metaphor here ?
24 mins
  -> Yes, well spotted!
agree  Claire Chapman: I agree with the intent and just wish the metaphore hadn't been mixed. Perhaps you can reword it?
11 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

Return to KudoZ list

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.

See also:
ProZ.com term search
Search millions of term translations
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search