家康公床風据跡

English translation: site of the prayer hall for the soul of Tokugawa Ieyasu

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Japanese term or phrase:家康公床風据跡
English translation:site of the prayer hall for the soul of Tokugawa Ieyasu
Entered by: Steven Smith

20:30 Apr 15, 2007
Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Tourism & Travel
Japanese term or phrase: 家康公床風据跡
Hi.

I think this might be a typo for 徳川家康公床机据之跡 which I was able to find.

But I'm still not sure what this is.

CAn anyone help me with this?

Thanks
Yo Mizuno
Japan
Local time: 05:44
site of the prayer hall for the soul of Tokugawa Ieyasu
Explanation:
徳川家康 is Tokugawa Ieyasu
公 attached to a name is duke/prince

According to this site, this was a reioku - a building in which the spirit of the departed is worshipped.
徳川家康が鷹狩の際にしばしば立ち寄った宗高の代官屋敷の一隅に、家康の死後建てられた霊屋です。家康の画像や拝領物がまつってあります。
http://www.town.oigawa.lg.jp/town/b_bunkazai.asp

床机 is a prayer stool, so I would guess that 床机据 is a periphrastic way of saying prayer hall: 'place where you kneel and pray to the dead'
Selected response from:

Steven Smith
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:44
Grading comment
I think this is the most likely answer since the address of site that Steven has suggested matches my source Text. Thank you all for your insights!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2site of the prayer hall for the soul of Tokugawa Ieyasu
Steven Smith
5Historical Site of Shogun Iyeyasu's Command (or Resting Place)
humbird
2Historic site where Tokugawa Ieyasu's chair/folding stool was positioned/set
Joyce A


  

Answers


39 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
家康公床風据跡 (徳川家康公床机据之跡)
site of the prayer hall for the soul of Tokugawa Ieyasu


Explanation:
徳川家康 is Tokugawa Ieyasu
公 attached to a name is duke/prince

According to this site, this was a reioku - a building in which the spirit of the departed is worshipped.
徳川家康が鷹狩の際にしばしば立ち寄った宗高の代官屋敷の一隅に、家康の死後建てられた霊屋です。家康の画像や拝領物がまつってあります。
http://www.town.oigawa.lg.jp/town/b_bunkazai.asp

床机 is a prayer stool, so I would guess that 床机据 is a periphrastic way of saying prayer hall: 'place where you kneel and pray to the dead'

Steven Smith
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20
Grading comment
I think this is the most likely answer since the address of site that Steven has suggested matches my source Text. Thank you all for your insights!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.): Remain of the prayer hall for the soul of Tokugawa Ieyasu
3 hrs

agree  humbird: あ、どうもこれのようですね。でも私の回答は参考です。
8 hrs
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
Historical Site of Shogun Iyeyasu's Command (or Resting Place)


Explanation:
あなたのいうように床風ではなく床几だと思います。
床几とは「屋台の床几」などというように、今風に言うとベンチのような簡単なものですが、ここでは徳川家康という、歴史上の大人物が出てきます。
そのひとが座った床几となれば、屋台の床几などとは全然意味が違います。ですから単に folding stool と訳しては歴史的な意味がまったくありません。

床机とは「将机」とも書くように、徳川家康ともなりますと、「大将の座るところ」という重々しい意味になります。
あなたのいう家康の床几を据えてあったところは戦場なのか、そうでなくお遊びの鷹狩りのようなものだったのか、ちょっとコンテクストが不足ですが、もし戦場であったとすれば、それは彼がそこに座って、部下の侍大将などと軍議を催したところのような感じです。
そうしますと当然、彼がそこから命令をくだしたところとなります。

なお、鷹狩りなどであれば、休憩所に据えた床几だったとも考えられます。
そうすると(  )内の答えになります。

humbird
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Joyce A: Hi Susan. I just read your interesting comment. I still have my "victory chair theory" (I may be off.) But I must admit, these historic sites jog the imagination!
23 mins
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
Historic site where Tokugawa Ieyasu's chair/folding stool was positioned/set


Explanation:
Yo-san,
Okay, here is a far-out theory...
This is quite interesting and I may be totally off my rocker but this is how I interpret it.

If you think that your source term should be "徳川家康公床机据之跡" (as you say above) this is my theory.

床机= folding chair or stool
据 = set, lay, place, install, equip, appoint, and (suwaru) = squat down, sit down, (eyes) fixed on.

I'm thinking that it is the site where Tokugawa's folding stool was placed while he watched the Battle of Sekigahara. (It makes me think of those old samurai movies where the Lords sat on their folding chairs/stools as they watched their brave samurai fight the wars.)

As you can see from the website below, "Having cleared the path to become the next shogun, Lord Tokugawa Ieyasu sat back on his stool and mused to those in his presence, "After victory, tighten the cords of your helmet."

I think that was a most important and pivotal time in Tokugawa's history!--so his folding chair/stool has been memorialized.

http://www.jko.com/portal/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45&PN=4

The Battle of Sekigahara was decisive victory. Among the final pursuits of the battle, when the Easterners mopped up remaining pockets of resistance, Lord Ishida's home castle at Sawayama was captured and his brother killed. Lord Tokugawa Ieyasu had to be restrained by his own commanders from taking similar vengeance against his own son, Hidetada, who showed up with his 38,000 samurai just after the end of the fighting. A "heads inspection" was performed at Lord Tokugawa's final encampment just north of Sekigahara along the Hokkoku Road, where he viewed the nearly 40,000 enemy heads taken in battle. Within three days, Lord Ishida Mitsunari was captured in the area of Mount Ibuki and taken to Kyoto with other captive leaders of the Western Army. All were executed on the river bed within a matter of days. Having cleared the path to become the next shogun, Lord Tokugawa Ieyasu sat back on his stool and mused to those in his presence, "After victory, tighten the cords of your helmet."

The Battle of Sekigahara represented the last great leap out of generations of bitter civil warfare in Japan. First and foremost, it established Lord Tokugawa Ieyasu as hegemon over all Japan and ended any claim to supremacy by the Toyotomi family. He permitted the young Toyotomi Hideyori and his mother Yodogimi to retain his residence in Osaka Castle along with 650,000 koku of land in three nearby provinces, but he confiscated the domains of some ninety daimyo outright and reduced the land holdings of many others. Before Sekigahara, all the daimyo had submitted to Toyotomi Hideyoshi. Now, they would have to submit to Tokugawa Ieyasu.


http://www.phoenixbonsai.com/Paintings/Japan1600to1800.html
stool (from Tokugawa period)

So my conclusion is this:
This is the historic site where Tokugawa Ieyasu's chair/folding stool was positioned/set where he fixed his eyes on the Battle of Sekigahara--a victory and a turning point in Japanese history.





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Note added at 5 hrs (2007-04-16 02:24:27 GMT)
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By the way, the second site is just a stool from the Tokugawa period. It's the website above it that I find quite fascinating.

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Note added at 9 hrs (2007-04-16 06:14:12 GMT)
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Just as a little added piece of related information:
Folding chairs and stools (antique Chinese chairs, particularly Ming Dynasty) are very desirable from a collector’s standpoint. They command very high prices at auctions.
The bottom info, taken from a website shows how crazy prices are with important antique Chinese furniture:
…“Cornell, who sits on Sotheby's advisory board and is a trustee of the Asia Society Museum, is selling a US$1.9 million collection of classical Chinese furniture -- including a wooden 17th-century Ming Dynasty folding-back chair, estimated to bring as much as US$300,000.”

(Japanese folding chairs/stools were patterned after the Chinese stools.)

And the website below talks about the history of the folding chair. It also says that: “folding chairs were seats of ceremony, and are depicted in conventional ancestor paintings. these traveling chairs were carefully represented in the portraits, reflecting their importance and historical significance.”

http://www.designboom.com/eng/education/folding/asia.html

So, such chairs have historical significance…Tokugawa Ieyasu was no ordinary man—it was no ordinary war—and it was no ordinary chair. (In my humble opinion)


Joyce A
Thailand
Local time: 03:44
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 24
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