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avocat au barreau (vs. avocat à la Cour)

English translation: See explanation

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:avocat au barreau (vs. avocat à la Cour)
English translation:See explanation
Entered by: Rosene Zaros

03:16 Mar 9, 2007
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / courts
French term or phrase: avocat au barreau (vs. avocat à la Cour)
Can anyone tell me the difference between an "avocat au barreau" and an "avocat à la Cour"? A Kudoz search gives "member of the bar" for the former and "barrister" for the latter. In English this would mean the same thing, but there appears to be a distinction in the French system. Any informed guidance appreciated. TIA.
Sarah Walls
Australia
Local time: 16:57
See explanation
Explanation:
When I have encountered these terms, there has always been something else: "avocat au barreau de Nice", for example, and that could be translated as Attorney-at-Law, Nice. As you say, in GB, this would be "Barrister." In the second instance, it was something like "Avocat à la Cour de cassation" which meant that the lawyer was accredited to argue before the "Cour de cassation." If your terms are not qualified in any way, I would say that you are safe to use "barrister" or "attorney-at-law" depending on whether you are using US or UK English. Hope this helps!

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Note added at 10 hrs (2007-03-09 13:36:26 GMT)
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Sarah, In order to have access to the profession of avocat, a person must fulfill quite a few conditions. They may then become attached to the cours and tribunaux de grande instance or practice independently.
Selected response from:

Rosene Zaros
United States
Local time: 02:57
Grading comment
Thanks, Rosene, and Charlotte and cmwilliams for helpful comments and links. It's still not entirely clear in this case, as no jurisdiction is specified in the doc, and both lawyers are members of the same cabinet d'avocats, so presumably in the same jurisdiction. But perhaps Y has been formally accredited with the TGI, but Y hasn't.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3See explanation
Rosene Zaros
4 +1avocat au barreau (vs. avocat à la Cour)
PVelay
4See explanation
Paul VALET (X)
3Barrister / Appeal Court Counsel
Mpoma


Discussion entries: 7





  

Answers


33 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
See explanation


Explanation:
When I have encountered these terms, there has always been something else: "avocat au barreau de Nice", for example, and that could be translated as Attorney-at-Law, Nice. As you say, in GB, this would be "Barrister." In the second instance, it was something like "Avocat à la Cour de cassation" which meant that the lawyer was accredited to argue before the "Cour de cassation." If your terms are not qualified in any way, I would say that you are safe to use "barrister" or "attorney-at-law" depending on whether you are using US or UK English. Hope this helps!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2007-03-09 13:36:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sarah, In order to have access to the profession of avocat, a person must fulfill quite a few conditions. They may then become attached to the cours and tribunaux de grande instance or practice independently.

Rosene Zaros
United States
Local time: 02:57
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 7
Grading comment
Thanks, Rosene, and Charlotte and cmwilliams for helpful comments and links. It's still not entirely clear in this case, as no jurisdiction is specified in the doc, and both lawyers are members of the same cabinet d'avocats, so presumably in the same jurisdiction. But perhaps Y has been formally accredited with the TGI, but Y hasn't.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks Rosene (and Hervé). No, in this doc, it simply says "X, avocat au barreau, et Y, avocat à la Cour". I guess it could mean that X is a member of the bar, but that Y is accredited with the local TGI, but it still puzzles me --what would be the point of being a member of the bar, if you couldn't represent someone in court? Odd...but anyway thanks for your comments.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jennifer Forbes
3 hrs
  -> Thank you, Jenny!
agree  narasimha (X)
4 hrs
  -> Thanks, Narasimha
agree  Andreas THEODOROU: I think in same way - perhaps it's to differentiate from lawyers in training who have yet to be assigned to a 'barreau' ??
5 hrs
  -> Thanks, Andy. I think just to hold the title "avocat" they have to fulfill certain conditions.
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1 day 18 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
See explanation


Explanation:
Barreau = Ensemble des avocats établis auprès d'un même tribunal de grande instance (TGI) qui constitue l'ordre des avocats de ce tribunal. e.g; "Barreau de Paris".

This does not prevent an "avocat" from pleading in an other TGI.

On ne peut porter le titre d'avocat que si l'on exerce effectivement la profession et si l'on est inscrit à un barreau.

Cour = cour d'appel. e.g. Cour d'appel de Paris.

"Avocat à la cour" means that he or she is practising as an avocat.

Paul VALET (X)
France
Local time: 08:57
Native speaker of: French
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1432 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
avocat au barreau (vs. avocat à la Cour)


Explanation:
avocat au barreau vs. avocat à la Cour

An "avocat" is a barrister: both must be established at a Bar (barreau or cour). Here lies the trick, in France, there are two words to translate a bar.

They are many Bars in France. Some of those Bars have a Court of Appeal (e.g. Paris). "Avocats à la Cour" are members of a Bar with a Court of Appeal. Bar without a Court of Appeal are called "barreau", thus the term "avocat au barreau".




PVelay

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ben Gaia
1829 days
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3963 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Barrister / Appeal Court Counsel


Explanation:
I'd need a clarification on this from someone really knowledgeable about the FR judicial system.

However, I've been doing legal FR-EN translation for more than 20 years, and "cour" does not mean "a court". It VERY SPECIFICALLY means "an appeal court". "Tribunal" is the word for lower courts / courts of first instance. All the higher courts are called "cour", right up to the Cour de Cassation and even the Haute Cour de Justice, where the President of the Republic and their ministers can be tried for treason!

When I see the term "avocat à la cour" this must therefore mean, it seems to me, someone who is qualified to work in appeals.

I'd really like to know whether there are barristers in France (i.e. having been called "au Barreau"), presumably junior, who are barristers but are not permitted to deal with appeal cases.

Mpoma
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:57
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 70
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