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竊"符"救趙

English translation: tally

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Chinese term or phrase:竊"符"救趙
English translation:tally
Entered by: Jennifer Li (X)

13:03 Jan 16, 2007
Chinese to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - History
Chinese term or phrase: 竊"符"救趙
Hi all,

I have trouble with the word "符," which should mean "兵符," but what's the proper translation for this term?
Thank you very much!
Jennifer Li (X)
Local time: 15:58
tally
Explanation:
In fact, my dictionary's first definition of 符 is this: "符 1. (符節) tally (with two halves, made of bamboo, wood, jade, metal, issued by a ruler to generals, envoys, etc., as credentials in ancient China)

I like "tally" here because they were not really seals at all, but a thing with two halves that had to match, or "tally", which leads naturally to the 符合 sense. So we can think of the character 符 as meaning (originally) two matching pieces of bamboo.

The English title of the movie 信陵君竊符救趙 (1957) was "How Prince Xinling Stole the General's Seal to Save the State of Zhao", but it was given the alias "The Tiger Tally".

See second reference for pictures of actual 符
Selected response from:

Malcolm Mayfield
United States
Local time: 02:58
Grading comment
Thank you for your help. :)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +1tally
Malcolm Mayfield
4 +1commander's seal
yuzouren
3 +2stealing the tiger seal from the King of Wei to save the state of Zhao
pkchan
4token for military commands
Linguist Laureate
4stealing the seal to rescue Zhao
emaildaneng
3 +1符 = tally
chica nueva


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
竊
token for military commands


Explanation:
最早的兵符
符是中国古代朝廷传达命令、征调兵将以及用于各项事务的一种凭证。用金、银、玉、角、竹、木、铅等不同原料制成，用时双方各执一半，合之以验真假。这件杜虎符便是现存最早的一件调兵凭证，一符剖为左右两半，右边留存于朝廷，左半交地方官吏或统兵将帅保管，使用时两半相合，即为“符合”，表示命令验证可信。

虎威励志
符作虎走形，虎昂首，尾端卷曲，背面有凹槽，颈有一穿孔。身上有错金铭文九行四十字：“兵甲之符，右在君，左在杜，凡兴士被甲，用兵五十人以上，必会君符，乃敢行之。”这也是杜虎符的来历和用途。用威猛的虎来鼓舞战士的斗志，古人的兵法远不仅仅只在书上。

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2007-01-16 15:08:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Steal the token for military commands to rescue Kingdom Zhao


    Reference: http://baike.baidu.com/view/440728.htm
Linguist Laureate
China
Local time: 15:58
Works in field
Native speaker of: Chinese
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
竊
commander's seal


Explanation:
1

yuzouren
Japan
Local time: 16:58
Native speaker of: Native in ChineseChinese
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  peiling: or military seal. http://edu.ocac.gov.tw/ebook/allword.asp?LP=240
4 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
stealing the seal to rescue Zhao


Explanation:
兵符: seal of command (or badge/insignia/token of command)

emaildaneng
Local time: 02:58
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
竊
stealing the tiger seal from the King of Wei to save the state of Zhao


Explanation:
語出於司馬遷史記信陵君竊符救趙

China History Forum, chinese history forum > Shi ji - chapter 771-the “tiger seal” (兵 符) which the Prince stole from the King of Wei was ... 魏 王 恐 ， 使 人 止 晉鄙 ， 留 軍 壁 鄴 ， 名 為 救 趙 ， 實 持 兩 端 以 觀 ...
www.chinahistoryforum.com/lofiversion/index.php/t7610.html - 63k - Cached - Similar pages

信陵君竊符救趙（節選）司馬遷- [ Translate this page ][ 簡體 ]信陵君竊符救趙（節選）司馬遷. 作者：聖言學堂 古文翻譯來源：聖言學堂 點擊數： ... 魏王使將軍晉鄙將十萬眾救趙。秦王使使者告魏王曰：“吾攻趙，旦暮且下；而諸侯 ...
www.paiai.com/yiwen/gz/g6/200607/3173.html - 20k - Cached - Similar pages



pkchan
United States
Local time: 03:58
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ChineseChinese
PRO pts in category: 18

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  franksf: Nice search - i'd otherwise never get to know it.
1 hr
  -> thanks
agree  CHEN-Ling
9 hrs
  -> thanks
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
竊
tally


Explanation:
In fact, my dictionary's first definition of 符 is this: "符 1. (符節) tally (with two halves, made of bamboo, wood, jade, metal, issued by a ruler to generals, envoys, etc., as credentials in ancient China)

I like "tally" here because they were not really seals at all, but a thing with two halves that had to match, or "tally", which leads naturally to the 符合 sense. So we can think of the character 符 as meaning (originally) two matching pieces of bamboo.

The English title of the movie 信陵君竊符救趙 (1957) was "How Prince Xinling Stole the General's Seal to Save the State of Zhao", but it was given the alias "The Tiger Tally".

See second reference for pictures of actual 符



    Reference: http://www.hkmdb.com/db/movies/view.mhtml?id=2472&display_se...
    Reference: http://www.chinainfoonline.com/AncientRelics/Tally.htm
Malcolm Mayfield
United States
Local time: 02:58
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
Thank you for your help. :)

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  chica nueva
2 days 2 hrs
  -> Thanks Lesley
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 days 16 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
竊
符 = tally


Explanation:
朝廷传达命令或征调兵将用的凭证,用金,玉,铜,竹,木制成,刻上文字,分成两半,一半存朝廷,一半给外任官员或出征将帅. a tally issued by a ruler to generals, envoys, etc, as credentials in ancient China; usually made of gold, jade, copper, bamboo, or wood, and split in half (one half kept in the court, the other carried by the envoy or general).

兵符 = (in former times) military tally used as evidence of authority
虎符 = a tiger-shaped tally issued to generals as imperial authorisation for troop movement in ancient China
(汉英双解新华字典, 2000)

chica nueva
Local time: 19:58
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Malcolm Mayfield: for real kudos!
1 day 13 hrs
  -> Thank you!
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