Pachtvertrag vs. Mietvertrag

English translation: lease agreement

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

German term or phrase:	Pachtvertrag vs. Mietvertrag
English translation:	lease agreement
Entered by:	Alpha-HD

15:30 Sep 28, 2006

German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law: Contract(s)

German term or phrase: Pachtvertrag vs. Mietvertrag

gibt es eine Unterscheidung im Englischen? Ich finde für beides "lease (agreement", "agreement between landlord and tenant", "tenancy agreement" usw.

Alpha-HD KudoZ activity Questions: 16 (none open) Answers: 18
Local time: 23:25

lease agreement

Explanation:
I checked Black's Law Dictionary. It only lists lease agreement. Rental is defined as rent paid.

Selected response from:

EMatt
Local time: 17:25

Grading comment

Thanks everybody for taking the trouble. There seems to be no equivalent distinction in English, if required by the context, I will really add a footnote, which I normally think makes translations unreadable
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +4

depends on the cirucumstances

Ted Wozniak

Own-worked {business} franchise/personal licence vs. Assignable lease/rental agreement

Adrian MM. (X)

lease agreement

EMatt

not for points

Reinhard Wenzel

lease vs. rent

gangels (X)

Discussion entries: 2

Answers

4 hrs confidence:

not for points

Explanation:
Dann müsste man vermutlich in einer Fussnote den Unterschied zwischen den beiden deutschen Begriffen erklären, der sich z.B. aus dem BGB ergibt.

vgl. unten auf der Seite

http://www.sv-poesel.de/Verkehrswert/Fachgebiete/Miete/haupt...

In der neuen Übersetzung des BGB, die das Bundesjustizministerium auf seiner Internetseite veröffentlicht hatte, aber jetzt wegen Übersetzungsfehlern des externen Übersetzungsteams wieder zurückgezogen hat, ist der Begriff mit "usufructuary lease agreement" übersetzt - das scheint aber kein üblicher englischer Begriff zu sein, so dass er für den englichen Leser vielleicht auch erklärt werden müsste.

vgl. (im ersten Link nur noch die Überschriften zu sehen, im zweiten Link die Volltextversion in pdf)

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:xu17WGUmFPkJ:www.gesetze-...

www.ra-doerre.de/gesetze/20060906 German Civil Code.pdf

Reinhard Wenzel
Local time: 23:25
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

German
PRO pts in category: 4

7 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +4

depends on the cirucumstances

Explanation:
lease vs. rental agreement (tenancy agreement for both) are pretty much the same thing. Lease agreements (on real estate) tend to be longer term than rental agreements (usually not more than one year). Also businesses tend to conclude "lease agreements" and private individuals tend to conclude "rental agreements" but there really is no legal difference.

Note however that Black's Law dictionary does NOT even have an entry for "rental agreement" - only lease agreement/contract so if you want the "more correct" legal term instead of the Umgangsprache, then I would suggest using lease agreement.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2006-09-28 20:54:49 GMT)
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Then I would use lease for Pacht and rental for Miete and include the German terms in parens on first reference.

Ted Wozniak
United States
Local time: 16:25
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 114

Notes to answerer

Asker: But what would you do if you find both terms in a translation about a shopping center where some of the shops were given on "Miete" and others on "Pacht" ??

6 hrs confidence:

lease vs. rent

Explanation:
A "long-term lease" or Pacht (10 years or more) can be incrementally adjusted, i.e. you are safe not to get evicted but still may have to make higher lease payments over the years in consideration of a variety of factors (cost of living, real estate taxes, improvements etc.) A "rental agreement" is a fixed amount over a certain time (usually one or two years). I am talking about US commercial properties here. Lease is interchangeable with rent, that is, you can call a rental arrangement a lease, but a rental arrangement not a lease.

gangels (X)
Local time: 15:25
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English,

German
PRO pts in category: 337

15 hrs confidence:

Own-worked {business} franchise/personal licence vs. Assignable lease/rental agreement

Explanation:
It's no use trying to distinguish the virtually interchangeable Anglo-Am terms of lease, rental and hire.

Pacht is a business franchise proposition and Miete a straight re-assignable lease i.e. of a shop in a shopping centre in the questioner's example.

Land-, Kleingarten-, Jagd- and Fischereipacht are particular variation on Pacht and are more akin to a *personal* profit-à-prendre or licence.

There can be NO sub-franchising of a Pachtverhältnis that has to be worked by the franchisee (Pächter) vs. an Unter-/Weitermietvertrag = sub-lease of land or sub-hire/rental of a car = Automietvertrag.

Besides, a Pachtklo in the ex-GDR used to be run by Klofrauen who paid the State a Pachtzins - franhcise payment - and in turn asked users for a fee. By no stretch of the imagination could they sub-franchise the operation.

NB Pacht:

§ 1091 Au ABGB - Bestandvertrag (rental agreement), bei dem die Bestandsache *nur durch Fleiß und Mühe* benutzt werden kann.

§ 581 DE BGB - ... der einer Teil vepflichtet sich, dem anderen Teil (Pächter) den Gebrauch ... und *den Genuß der Früchte*...

Example sentence(s):

Mit Pachtvertrag vom 22. Juni 1986 verpachtete die Klägerin im Anschluß ... den Grundstücksumsatz als steuerpflichtigen *Eigenverbrauch* und die Klägerin die ...

Reference: http://www.bfh.simons-moll.de/bfh_1994/XX940826.HTM

Adrian MM. (X)
Local time: 23:25
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 572

2 days 3 hrs confidence:

lease agreement

Explanation:
I checked Black's Law Dictionary. It only lists lease agreement. Rental is defined as rent paid.

EMatt
Local time: 17:25
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

German,

English
PRO pts in category: 15

Grading comment

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English translation: lease agreement

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