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substituido por (Is the Portuguese backwards?)

English translation: substituted for

04:05 Aug 10, 2006
Portuguese to English translations [PRO]
Medical - Medical (general) / death certificate
Portuguese term or phrase: substituido por (Is the Portuguese backwards?)
In the following sentence, it would make more sense to me if it said "substituindo outros" -- unless I'm missing something. Any insights?

Quanto ao novo documento, foi elaborado Manual de Instruções para o preenchimento da Declaração de Óbito, que, em razão de modificações no desenho da DO, **foi substituído por outros**.
Muriel Vasconcellos
United States
Local time: 09:24
English translation:substituted for
Explanation:
Yes, sometimes the Portuguese phrasing comes out backwards from the English way of saying it, and can be ambiguous. I go with what makes sense in English. Here, I think "for" is the idea, rather than "by". The new instruction manual was substituted for (in the place of) the older versions.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2006-08-10 12:15:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or, in line with Sue's suggestion, "replaced the other manuals"...
Selected response from:

Edgar Potter
United States
Local time: 11:24
Grading comment
Thank you -- I needed the reassurance, though I can see that it wasn't unanimous!
2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +5substituted for
Edgar Potter
5 +1was replaced by
rhandler


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


54 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +5
substituted for


Explanation:
Yes, sometimes the Portuguese phrasing comes out backwards from the English way of saying it, and can be ambiguous. I go with what makes sense in English. Here, I think "for" is the idea, rather than "by". The new instruction manual was substituted for (in the place of) the older versions.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2006-08-10 12:15:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or, in line with Sue's suggestion, "replaced the other manuals"...

Edgar Potter
United States
Local time: 11:24
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 22
Grading comment
Thank you -- I needed the reassurance, though I can see that it wasn't unanimous!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  mareug
1 hr
  -> Thanks
agree  suesimons: Or "replaced by" maybe
2 hrs
  -> I think this is the confusion here...the new manual replaced the older versions, rather than being replaced by them...thanks
agree  Henrique Magalhaes
3 hrs
  -> Thanks
agree  isarcat
8 hrs
  -> Thanks
agree  Claudio Mazotti
8 hrs
  -> Thanks
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
was replaced by


Explanation:
It's not the Portuguese that is "backwards". You should avoid using "substitute" when translating between Portuguese and English. Better use replace, instead of substitute, since prepositions and passive voice will not make it completely clear.

João substituiu Antonio = João replaced Antonio (Antonio left and João stepped in).

The use of "substitute" in English is entirely different from other (Latin) languages.

rhandler
Local time: 13:24
Native speaker of: Portuguese
PRO pts in category: 230
Notes to answerer
Asker: I understand how to translate the Portuguese. I wanted confirmation that there was a mistake in the original. Please look at the original again and see if it makes sense with your interpretaton.

Asker: I hate to be dog-in-the-manger, but why would they write a new one, only for it to be REPLACED BY "others"?


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Edgar Potter: as I noted...in this context "replaced", not "replaced by"..substitution is used all the time in sports contexts, a player being "for" or "by" another, opposite situations, hence the special confusion in Pt, since "por" can be tanslated by either word
46 mins
  -> Your comment is a living evidence of what I said, besides leaving it clear that you didn't understand the issue. Your last note leaves it clear: rather than "replaced the other manuals", it should say "was replaced by the other manuals" (foi substituído)
agree  Liliana Gomes: I guess you're right. We have a passive here (active: outros documentos substituiram este -- este foi substituido por outros), hence "replaced by" in my opinion.
8 hrs
  -> Obrigado, Liliana. Sim, há um erro no original, a última palavra. Ou é masculino singular (referindo-se ao Manual) ou é feminino plural (referindo-se às instruções).
agree  Paulo César Mendes MD, CT: Interesting comment. The final "outros" could make sense if it were "outros documentos" or something, but I bet it is just wrong.
12 hrs
  -> Thank you, Paulo Cesar. Welcome aboard this forum.
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