trade, marry into trade

English translation: commerce

17:32 May 29, 2006

English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature

English term or phrase: trade, marry into trade

there are two uses (in either cases it's the early 20 C):

in the first, the young man (British) is talking about his family, who seem to be rich people, but whom he doesn't get along with very well: "Mother is Ulster, connected - not remotely - with trade..."

in the second, the woman is talking with her mother about her husband's (the young man above) family: "Poor people - prisoners of a code, and nobody to show them early enough a way to walk out of it. Poor man [this is the husband's father], believing himself on thin ice all his life because he married into trade. Poor woman. It is such a tragedy."

now, is the first "trade" used in the sense of commerce/business? or rather - no detailed info is given, but - considering it is the early 20 C, and the mother is member of a pretty rich family (and that the woman herself is not carrying on this "trade" as it migt not seem possible at the time) could it be her family that is engaged in business/commerce? and hence, the son is talking about her being connected to trade?

as to the second, is the man married into trade because he carries on the business of his wife's family? or does in mean he's just continuing his - possibly - own father's business without having had much to choose?

vitaminBcomplex KudoZ activity Questions: 249 (none open) (7 closed without grading) Answers: 0
Local time: 05:37

Selected answer:commerce

Explanation:
This is a good example of the snobbery of the times. "Trade" is higher than "blue collar", and means the family makes money by buying and selling things. Most likely they run a shop, or they could run a chain of shops, and be very wealthy, but they don't own land, so they are not part of the landed gentry, and they don't have inherited wealth, so they actually have to work!

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Note added at 14 mins (2006-05-29 17:47:25 GMT)
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The "thin ice" is I think because he may be trying to make his way in society, but if anybody finds out he made his money from "trade" he could be finished.

Selected response from:

David Knowles
Local time: 03:37

Grading comment

thanx, very much help :)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED

3 +5

Connected with business (pejorative, British snobbery etc)

Angela Dickson (X)

4 +1

commerce

David Knowles

4 +1

ocupation, business or profession habitually carried on

DarekS

blue-collar, working class

NancyLynn

Answers

3 mins confidence:

blue-collar, working class

Explanation:
in the fitst instance, it sounds like she`s connected with industry

NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 22:37
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 75

11 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +5

Connected with business (pejorative, British snobbery etc)

Explanation:
This is about good old-fashioned British snobbery, as far as I can tell given the context. If you've ever read 'Pride and Prejudice' the same theme arises - the division between those who have inherited money and don't have to work, and those who have made their money in business.

So yes, the young man's mother would be from a family that is connected with business. As for the second - not quite sure what is meant by 'thin ice' - possibly insecurity? In any case, the meaning is similar.

Sounds like an interesting job! best of luck.

Angela Dickson (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:37
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 8

12 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

commerce

David Knowles
Local time: 03:37
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 72

Grading comment

thanx, very much help :)

46 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

ocupation, business or profession habitually carried on

Explanation:
I have found something interesting about the historical aspect of the usage of the word "trade" in the OED around the begining of the 20th century: "The practice of some occupation, business, or profession habitually carried on, esp. when practised as a means of livelihood or gain; a calling; formerly used very widely, including professions; now usually applied to a mercantile occupation and to a skilled handicraft, as distinct from a profession (those engaged in the particular business or industry concerned or in question; spec. the publishers and booksellers; now more commonly, those engaged in the liquor trade.), and spec. restricted to a skilled handicraft, as distinguished from a professional or mercantile occupation on the one hand, and from unskilled labour on the other. in trade, following a mercantile occupation, spec. that of a shop-keeper.
In earliest use not clearly distinguishable from course, way, or manner of life; course of action; mode of procedure, method. which is now obsolete or dialectical; the sense is developed by contextual additions, as trade (i.e. practice) of husbandry, of merchandise, of fishing, etc.

Examples:
1865 Trollope Can you forgive Her? II. xv. 113 There was a little prejudice, because of his being in trade. 1932 Lady Duff Gordon Discretions & Indiscretions v. 60, I could never be presented at Court, because I was in ‘trade’. 1953 M. Sharp Gipsy in Parlour xii. 125 His father was in trade, and Frederick snubbed him. 1974 ‘W. Haggard’ Kinsmen x. 98 When he'd made a great fortune Duncan Gregg had gone up the ladder a little. But not very much, he was still in trade. 1979 A. McCowen Young Gemini 53 Living in the Royal Borough of Tunbridge Wells, my father was made to feel over-conscious of being ‘in trade’. "

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Note added at 54 mins (2006-05-29 18:27:05 GMT)
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The key sentence here is, I think, that one:
"...as distinguished from a professional or mercantile occupation on the one hand, and from unskilled labour on the other. in trade, following a mercantile occupation, spec. that of a shop-keeper. "

DarekS
Local time: 04:37
Native speaker of: Polish
PRO pts in category: 4

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English translation: commerce

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