a prophecy weaver

English translation: shaman

14:17 Jun 30, 2005

English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting / American Indians

English term or phrase: a prophecy weaver

The context is Navajo Indians. Is it some kind of a fortune teller, or does it have anything to do with weaving as such?

allp KudoZ activity Questions: 909 (1 open) (19 closed without grading) Answers: 1695 Poland
Local time: 05:25

Selected answer:shaman

Explanation:
weaver is used figuratively, e.g.,

The 'Net Kooks Korner - Page 2
Reading his wildly convoluted, tortuously pointless mathematical contortions as
he tried to weave prophecy out of puffery was a true hoot. ...
www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/9941/kooks2.html - 42k - În Cache - Pagini similare

Rebecca's blog of Randomness: la la ta dee da
... that. I'm just not sure yet. And what's even more mind boggling...I know
that God wants to weave prophecy in through that. I know ...
blogs.christianguitar.org/ rebeccahugs/archives/000239.html - 101k - Rezultat suplimentar - În Cache - Pagini similare

Tastyfresh Forums: What do y’all make of this???
... in a NKJV. Even if God DID weave prophecy into the Bible through
codes, it changes nothing. _____ Dave R Redsavior. ...
www.tastyfresh.com/forum/ forum_posts.asp?TID=4102&PN=1 - 79k - Rezultat suplimentar - În Cache - Pagini similare

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Note added at 25 mins (2005-06-30 14:43:33 GMT)
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Story-teling and spinning/weaving were intimately connected in preliterate societies (which is why we have expressions such as \"the warp of the narrative\" - cf. \"trame\" in French; and even the \"threads\" of a forum :)))

Selected response from:

Valentin Alupoaie
Romania
Local time: 06:25

Grading comment

Great thanks to all of you, especially to humbird for the info!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED

3 +5

shaman

Valentin Alupoaie

Rug weaver of certain pattern

humbird

Navoja are expert weavers themselves

Balasubramaniam L.

prophet

Jonathan MacKerron

Discussion entries: 8

humbird

Likewise allp. Hope your language has clear distinction between shaman and shamaness (or medicinewoman). Like to know what is the title and the author of the book. You are hired for real fun job, I am jealous of you!

00:55 Jul 1, 2005

Non-ProZ.com

23:53 Jun 30, 2005

Of course she is a shamaness, a woman. I just repeated the form given by the answerer, which resulted in grammatical imcompatibility. Humbird, you may very well be right, but the book doesn't say anything about her weaving rugs. What she does is talk to spirits and I must account for it (I'm translating the book into Polish). I appreciate your knowledge and fully understand your admiration for the Navajos. I just wonder if the author of the book knew exactly what she was writing. And I loved the whole exchange of opinions!

humbird

Don't take me wrong I am not a bad loser, but I still object the "weaver is used figuratively" part.

23:11 Jun 30, 2005

humbird

So the verdict is given, and the case closed. In the story she is obviously a "shamaness" (not a shaman). In Navajo setting if one is a weaver that must be "she". If answerer knew it he would have said "shamaness" or "medicine woman" instead.

23:09 Jun 30, 2005

Non-ProZ.com

22:19 Jun 30, 2005

To Valentin: it comes from a novel. Here's the quote: "His grandmother's clan sent strange Mabel Blackgoat, the prophecy weaver, to fetch him". Later she's talking to a spirit coming out of a pot of green tea brewed with herbs, so I guess she is a kind of shaman. But, on the other hand, she's into crafts too - weaving not mentioned specifically, but the text says she's making pottery. All in all, I suppose that shamanism and rug weaving are really very strongly intertwined; however, in this case, I'll stick to "shaman".

RHELLER

United States

yes, fortune teller

14:29 Jun 30, 2005

Non-ProZ.com

14:25 Jun 30, 2005

Not much context, I'm afraid - just a statement that a certain woman was a prophecy weaver.

Natalie Wilcock (X)

A little more context or simply more text would help. But I doubt it has anything to do with weaving (i.e. manufacturing cloth) as such.

14:20 Jun 30, 2005

Answers

2 mins confidence:

prophet

Explanation:
is my guess

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Note added at 4 mins (2005-06-30 14:22:04 GMT)
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perhaps a verbatim translation from Navajo into English?

Jonathan MacKerron
Native speaker of: English

14 mins confidence:

Navoja are expert weavers themselves

Explanation:
Navajos (nav-uh-hohz, nah-vuh-hohz)

A tribe of Native Americans, the most numerous in the United States. The Navajos have reservations in the Southwest.

The Navajos were forced to move by United States troops under Kit Carson in 1864. They call the march, on which many died, the Long Walk.
Today, they are known for their houses, called hogans, made of logs and earth; for their work as ranchers and shepherds; and for their skill in weaving distinctive blankets and fashioning turquoise and silver jewelry.

http://www.answers.com/Navajo Indians

Only if you give more context will a more specific answer be possible.

Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 08:55
Native speaker of:

Hindi

7 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +5

shaman

Valentin Alupoaie
Romania
Local time: 06:25
Native speaker of:

Romanian
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

Great thanks to all of you, especially to humbird for the info!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Anabel Martínez

3 mins

-> thanks

agree

Can Altinbay: I think this word coversit well.

9 mins

-> thanks

agree

Kirill Semenov: weaving is a very popular metaphor for American Indians. Compare to Dream Catcher -- a woven device to catch spirits of the nights

12 mins

-> thanks

agree

Christopher Crockett: This is probably right, though it is *possible* that actual weaving was involved, somehow, in the process of divination. To Krill's "Dream Catcher" could be added "Shadow Catcher", a common Indian term for white photographers.

19 mins

-> possible indeed...

agree

jennifer newsome (X)

29 mins

-> thanks

disagree

humbird: No, weaver is not used figuratively. Weaver is definitely a weaver. Navajo ladies are expert weavers, and they don't have to be a shamaness. See my answer below.

34 mins

-> no offense, but I kind of doubt it's about weaving a specific pattern called 'prophecy'...

agree

Johan Venter: Humbrid, I'm afraid to say that you can weave your way through traffic without knowing the first thing about carpets. Weaving a prophecy is perfectly plausible.

2 hrs

-> thanks

37 mins confidence:

Rug weaver of certain pattern

Explanation:
First of all, I have never heard such thing as "prophecy weaver" per se (let me mind you this is not a boasting purpose, but I am the author of four books related to the Native Americans so I know something about them) there are certain pattern of rugs that might be called that way by certain people, although quite likely by "Bilaganas" -- means non-Navajos.
Navajo Nation is stretching three South West States of Arizona, New Mexico and Utah. Many of their women are expert weavers as traditionally they are sheep herders .... they raise sheep, sheer, wash, spin, dye, and weave into beautiful rugs, all hand made. Websites are numerous and following is just one of them (one of the best).
http://www.canyonart.com/rugs.htm
As you see here, Navajo rugs have many patterns .... Ganado, Tree of Life, Pictoral, Eye-duzzler, Yei, Burntwater, etc., etc.
It is so commercialized nowadays they are entering into the area traditionally held sacred, such as sand-painting. Sand-painting is a part of sacred healing ceremony, so it has very esoteric property.
It is for this reason I suspect this particular pattern of Navajo Rug weaver is called "prophecy weaver". Or it could be any other equally mysterious and esoteric patterns, thus weaver of them.

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Note added at 59 mins (2005-06-30 15:17:36 GMT)
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To Valentin, no, I am taking no offense. This is fair and open forum. Any opinion should be respected. However, it is definitely in Native American context. It is more down-to-earth matter than figurative.

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Note added at 6 hrs 36 mins (2005-06-30 20:54:39 GMT)
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To venter. Remember, context is Navajo. I don\'t know you but I know quite a few things about the People (I doubt very much you know why I am Capitalizing it). Also, sorry you don\'t call Navajo weaving \"carpet\". You may not seem to know how Navajo life is interwoven (I am using pun here!!), with rug weaving. Please be respectful to your fellow translator especially when you don\'t know the subject matter.

humbird
Native speaker of:

Japanese,

English

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