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Free Windows 10 update
Thread poster: William Pairman

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
Danish to English
+ ...
Various Jun 3, 2015

Samuel Murray wrote:
The move to Windows 7 was particularly painful for me, for even though Windows 7 "looks" like Windows XP, many of the functionalities that I got used to in Windows XP were simply absent in Windows 7.


Bad luck for you, then. I found Windows 7 very easy and natural to get used to after XP. You must have used some functions I didn't need.

Samuel Murray wrote:
By contrast, the move from Windows 7 to Windows 8 was pain-free (as I said: once you install Classic Shell, it's essentially Windows 7 again).


So much the better for you, but that doesn't help the millions of dissatisfied users. Nobody is trying to make you dislike Windows 8 if you like it.

Samuel Murray wrote:
...without their idiotic charms interrupting every few seconds...


Do you mean the slide-in menu that pops up when you move your mouse to the top-left of the screen? It doesn't bother me... I rarely see it.


It's called "charms". It pops up if the cursor is in the right side of the screen and you move it left like you would swipe on a touch screen. At least if you use the touchpad. It's simply impossible to move the cursor left in a straight line. You have to zigzag. It's unavoidable and makes ordinary cursor movements impossible and a terrible pain.


 

Georgi Kovachev  Identity Verified
Bulgaria
Local time: 21:46
Member (2010)
English to Bulgarian
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Where is the catch Jun 3, 2015

I see that the entire discussion is about the technical aspects of W10.

However, nobody raised the question of why a company would launch a new product for free. Have you ever been offered a new TV set for free because you have bought a certain brand last year or the year before? I have not.

I suspect that all people who have upgraded for free will eventually have to pay an annual subscription to keep using the system, which may turn out to be more costly.

... See more
I see that the entire discussion is about the technical aspects of W10.

However, nobody raised the question of why a company would launch a new product for free. Have you ever been offered a new TV set for free because you have bought a certain brand last year or the year before? I have not.

I suspect that all people who have upgraded for free will eventually have to pay an annual subscription to keep using the system, which may turn out to be more costly.

What would you say?

Regards,
Georgi
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Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:46
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
…because they are afraid that no one is going to use it Jun 3, 2015

Georgi Kovachev wrote:

I see that the entire discussion is about the technical aspects of W10.

However, nobody raised the question of why a company would launch a new product for free. Have you ever been offered a new TV set for free because you have bought a certain brand last year or the year before? I have not.

I suspect that all people who have upgraded for free will eventually have to pay an annual subscription to keep using the system, which may turn out to be more costly.

What would you say?

Regards,
Georgi


I think they're offering it for free because they are afraid that no one is going to use it, or that everyone is going to hate it (like with Win 8/8.1).

Personally, it's going to have to be pretty good if it is going to convince me to switch from my Windows 7 64-bit system, which I finally have running smoothly and just the way I like/want/need. The only way this is going to happen is if the upgrade process allows me to retain all of my applications and data. Otherwise, I’ll probably be sticking to 7 for the foreseeable future.


 

Neil Coffey  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:46
French to English
+ ...
Impetus to upgrade... Jun 3, 2015

I currently use Windows 7 and I think this is one of those darned-if-you-do darned-if-you-don't situations.

It's tempting to say "if it ain't broke don't fix it", especially given that Windows 8 has not been well received.

On the other hand, it's clear that:

- Microsoft realise that they made a royal mess of Windows 8; hopefully they've learnt some lessons;
- Microsoft want everyone to upgrade to the latest version, and in particular will be ceasing m
... See more
I currently use Windows 7 and I think this is one of those darned-if-you-do darned-if-you-don't situations.

It's tempting to say "if it ain't broke don't fix it", especially given that Windows 8 has not been well received.

On the other hand, it's clear that:

- Microsoft realise that they made a royal mess of Windows 8; hopefully they've learnt some lessons;
- Microsoft want everyone to upgrade to the latest version, and in particular will be ceasing mainstream support for Windows 7 round about now. If you don't upgrade now, there'll be increasing impetus to do so sooner or later.

So I'm personally erring on the side of upgrading while it's free. (Though I wonder if MS will actually end up charging for updates down the line.)
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William Pairman  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 20:46
Member (2005)
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
It's an accounting trick apparently... Jun 3, 2015

Georgi Kovachev wrote:

However, nobody raised the question of why a company would launch a new product for free. Have you ever been offered a new TV set for free because you have bought a certain brand last year or the year before? I have not.



If you understand the finer points of accounting...

this explains it


 

564354352 (X)  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 20:46
Danish to English
+ ...
In for a penny, in for a pound Jun 3, 2015

Uhhhh... we do worry a lot, don't we?

I just clicked to accept the early bird offer. I went from XP to 7, dodging 8 when I bought a new computer 18 months ago, so it's time for an update, anyway.

How dangerous can it be? Really?


 

Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:46
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Famous last words ;-) Jun 3, 2015

Gitte Hovedskov, MCIL wrote:

Uhhhh... we do worry a lot, don't we?

I just clicked to accept the early bird offer. I went from XP to 7, dodging 8 when I bought a new computer 18 months ago, so it's time for an update, anyway.

How dangerous can it be? Really?


 

Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:46
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Microsoft defines Win10 deal as 'marketing & promotional activity' to sidestep revenue deferral Jun 3, 2015

William Pairman wrote:

Georgi Kovachev wrote:

However, nobody raised the question of why a company would launch a new product for free. Have you ever been offered a new TV set for free because you have bought a certain brand last year or the year before? I have not.



If you understand the finer points of accounting...

this explains it




Thanks William. Very interesting, and probably worth quoting in full:

Free Windows 10 is not an upgrade … it's marketing
Microsoft defines deal as 'marketing and promotional activity;' sidesteps revenue deferral
By Gregg Keizer
Computerworld | Apr 26, 2015 2:03 PM PT

Windows 10 is not a free upgrade, Microsoft said last week. It's a "marketing and promotional activity.

The odd nomenclature appeared in Microsoft's 10-Q filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) that highlighted the company's first quarter financial numbers.

In the 10-Q segment devoted to revenue recognition -- typically several paragraphs of static boilerplate -- Microsoft brought up Windows 10, specifically the free upgrade it plans to hand out to users of Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 after Windows 10's summer debut.

"This offer differs from historical offers preceding the launch of new versions of Windows as it is being made available for free to existing users in addition to new customers after the offer announcement," Microsoft said. "We evaluated the nature and accounting treatment of the Windows 10 offer and determined that it represents a marketing and promotional activity, in part because the offer is being made available for free to existing users [emphasis added]."

There was method to Microsoft's apparent madness.

For accounting purposes, a free upgrade requires a company to set aside some revenue from the sale of the affected software -- in this case, Windows 8.1 -- then recognize that revenue only when the upgrade is released. All the revenue from the software sale is eventually booked, but at staggered intervals.

Once one got past the accounting-speak, Microsoft made that clear in the 10-Q.

"As this is a marketing and promotional activity, revenue recognition of new sales of Windows 8 will continue to be recognized as delivered," the company said. That meant sales of Windows 8.1 licenses to OEMs (original equipment manufacturers) will be recorded immediately and in full, not in fragments with some deferred until Windows 10 launches and the free upgrade is available to customers.

The difference for Microsoft? If it said Windows 10 was an upgrade, not part of a marketing campaign, the company would have had to adjust Windows revenue to account for the deferrals -- and set aside money from sales of the OS starting in January when it announced the no-cost upgrade -- reducing Windows' earnings for at least the first half of this year, perhaps longer.

That could have painted an even darker picture of Windows revenue, maybe one that would have bothered skittish short-term investors enough to impact the stock. After all, Windows revenue is already on a downward trend: In Q1 2015, sales to OEMs of consumer licenses -- those most affected by the free Windows 10 offer -- were off 26% from the year before.

By deferring revenue, those numbers would have looked even worse.


There has been precedent for Microsoft's working the language like this.

In 2013, Microsoft said Windows 8.1 -- the major refresh to the original Windows 8 of the year before -- was not an upgrade but was instead an update, again for accounting purposes. Like Windows 10 will be, Windows 8.1 was given to customers free of charge.

"We evaluated Windows 8.1 and determined that it did not meet the definition of an upgrade and thus have not deferred revenue related to this planned release," Microsoft said at the time in another SEC filing.

To get a rough idea of how much Microsoft might have had to defer if it had not labeled Windows 10's upgrade a promotional deal, one has only to look to the past.

The last time Microsoft offered a discounted upgrade to customers was prior to the launch of Windows 8. During an eight-month stretch from early June 2012 to the end of January 2013, people who purchased a new PC pre-loaded with Windows 7 were eligible for a $15 upgrade to Windows 8 Pro.

Microsoft deferred just under $1.1 billion in revenue for that upgrade program over a three-quarter stretch, then recorded that money as income during the first quarter of 2013.

Without access to Microsoft's own calculations, it's impossible to know how much it would have had to defer had the company not dubbed the free Windows 10 a promotion. Although fewer Windows PCs are sold these days than in 2012, the free-versus-$15 part of the equation may have made the deferred amount similar to the one for Windows 7.

Also unknown is whether Microsoft will defer revenue earned from Windows 10 licenses sold to OEMs to account for the plan to provide free updates and upgrades for, as the company has cryptically said, the "supported lifetime of the device." Microsoft has yet to define what it means by that phrase.

For the moment, all that's clear is that the Windows 10 free upgrade is not an upgrade: It's a marketing and promotional activity.

Keep that in mind when Windows 10 boots for the first time.


src: article on computerworld.com @ http://www.computerworld.com/article/2914993/microsoft-windows/free-windows-10-is-inoti-an-upgrade-its-marketing.html


[Edited at 2015-06-03 18:08 GMT]


 

Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:46
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
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Jun 3, 2015



[Edited at 2015-06-03 21:16 GMT]


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 20:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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So-called Start Menu in Windows 10 Jun 4, 2015

Thomas T. Frost wrote:
But there's no purpose trying to repair Windows 8 now that Windows 10 is around the corner.


I installed the preview version of Windows 10 in a virtual machine yesterday, so see what the new "start menu" looks like. Well, it's not a start menu at all. It's just that the Windows 8 start screen has now been reduced to a button where the start button used to be, and when you click that button, a rearranged version of the old Windows 8 start screen opens up. There are some tablet-style menu items in that start screen, but they don't make up a real start menu.

I'll explain: in old-style Windows, when you install another program (e.g. Firefox), the icon for that program would appear on the start menu, either as an icon in some dedicated place or as an icon inside a folder. But in Windows 10, after installing Firefox, the only place where a Firefox icon appears is in the "Recently installed" box (and you know it won't stay there for long). There is an additional button on the start screen to "view all apps" but the Firefox icon isn't there either (only Microsoft "apps" appear there). If it wasn't for the fact that Firefox adds itself as a pinned application to the task bar, the user would have no way to access the installed program without... creating an icon on the desktop manually.

Next to the start button in Windows 10 is a huge search button that takes up 40% of the taskbar. When you click that button, it turns into a search field from where you can search the web. Don't bother trying to find "Internet Explorer"... it's now called Edge or Project Spartan or something, and it's not on the start menu -- you have to use the search button/search field to run it. The only way to get rid of that large search button is to change the taskbar button settings to "small icons", and then the large search button changes into a smaller button with the familiar ice-cream scoop icon. And once you've done that, you get the option to disable that button also.

The preview version of Windows 10 comes with a seemingly unfinished theme (the window edges and taskbar look similar to that of Windows 8, except that it's all black and grey, and has less contrast than in Windows 8. I consider the colours used in the default theme in Windows 8 a step forward from Windows 7 (only the colours, not the fact that they've dropped the 3D effect), because it has better contrast, which is easier on the eye for people without perfect vision. The Windows 10 colours have less contrast and I struggled to visually distinguish some of the elements on the screen from each other when they overlapped or stood side by side.

Other than the relocation and reshuffling of the Windows 8 start screen, all other aspects look and feel like Windows 8. Classic Shell restored the real start menu in which Firefox had an icon in a predictable place (although the theme isn't very pretty at this stage). Verdict: Windows 10 won't take away the need for third party tools like Classic Shell.



[Edited at 2015-06-04 07:11 GMT]


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 20:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
On disabling edge swipe Jun 4, 2015

Thomas T. Frost wrote:
It's called "charms". It pops up if the cursor is in the right side of the screen and you move it left like you would swipe on a touch screen. At least if you use the touchpad. It's simply impossible to move the cursor left in a straight line.


I've never seen this behaviour with a mouse, so I guess it's touchpad specific. Have you tried disabling edge swipe in your touchpad settings or in Windows' own settings?




[Edited at 2015-06-04 07:41 GMT]


 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
Danish to English
+ ...
Not sure Jun 4, 2015

Samuel Murray wrote:

I've never seen this behaviour with a mouse, so I guess it's touchpad specific. Have you tried disabling edge swipe in your touchpad settings or in Windows' own settings?




[Edited at 2015-06-04 07:41 GMT]


I've been through all the touchpad settings already. As for Windows settings, there are so many of them, and they are scattered all over the place in Windows 8, and then most of them are hidden: I don't know. I don't have that miserable PC with me right now. I can try in a month.

I've already wasted hours searching for a solution.


 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
Danish to English
+ ...
If that's how the final version is, I probably won't install it Jun 4, 2015

Samuel Murray wrote:

I'll explain: in old-style Windows, when you install another program (e.g. Firefox), the icon for that program would appear on the start menu, either as an icon in some dedicated place or as an icon inside a folder. But in Windows 10, after installing Firefox, the only place where a Firefox icon appears is in the "Recently installed" box (and you know it won't stay there for long). There is an additional button on the start screen to "view all apps" but the Firefox icon isn't there either (only Microsoft "apps" appear there). If it wasn't for the fact that Firefox adds itself as a pinned application to the task bar, the user would have no way to access the installed program without... creating an icon on the desktop manually.


No point upgrading from Windows 7, then, if the final version of Windows 10 has retained this brainless part of Windows 8. Sure, I can install another Start Button application, so I'll keep that in mind as emergency solution if Windows 7 should start withering away like XP. What sort of sick design flop is this - hiding half the functions the user needs?

As I said, we'll use my daughter's Windows 8.1 laptop as guinea pig, then decide. Thanks for the warning.

As for the browser, Microsoft says the new 'Edge' browser is completely new. We'll see. IE had got the reputation of a steam train, so the name was hardly usable any longer.


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 20:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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On why it's free Jun 4, 2015

Georgi Kovachev wrote:
However, nobody raised the question of why a company would launch a new product for free. Have you ever been offered a new TV set for free because you have bought a certain brand last year or the year before? I have not.


You can't compare a TV upgrade (which means getting new hardware) with a software upgrade. There have been cases where a product manufacturer offers to exchange an old version for a new version, for free or almost free, to ensure a market for the new version's accompanying products, but that doesn't apply to the Windows upgrade either.

And it's not really free. It's "free" if you bought another version of Windows recently.

As to why: they have to make it free, because the new version comes too soon after the previous version (and the previous version came too soon after the version before that), and people won't be happy to pay for the new version if it's essentially the same as the old version, minus a few tweaks.


 
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