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Reviews now possible for "Translation Mastermind" (a private FB group included in Plus subscription)
Thread poster: Andrew Morris

Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 10:33
Member
English to French
+ ...
Godwin's law May 10

Now that the Nazis were mentionned, I think this post/announcement has made its full circle/served its purpose. It's like a crime scene were there is nothing to see. Onlookers, can we move on, please?

Godwin's law: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1".

[Edited at 2019-05-10 10:19 GMT]


Helen Shiner
Andrew Morris
Mr.Q
Rachel Waddington
 

Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:33
German to English
+ ...
selection criteria May 10

Andrew Morris wrote:

The selection criteria are very simple.

1. Professional translator or interpreter.
2. Open to ideas of service, mindset and growth that include but also go beyond "are you good at translating?"
3. Able to communicate in an empathic way that is conducive to group wellbeing, which certainly does not preclude fun or irony, but is neither aggressive nor snide.
4. Likely therefore to make a constructive contribution to a positive-minded community.
5. Unlikely to make comments implying that people have an affiliation to national socialism as practised in Germany between the years 1933 and 1945.

I would not have a clue on how to check on anything expect criterion number one. Even there, determining if someone is a "professional" translator is not that clearcut - I've been in various discussions where a need was felt to distinguish between professional and amateur or dilettante. But we can decide that if someone is earning their living in full or in part by translating, that's good enough.

The rest of your criteria can't really be determined. You would have to know a person very well, over years, as a good friend. As well, if a person wants to join and you don't know them, how will you determine ahead of time whether they are "open to ideas" for example? Do you have a questionnaire where you try to figure out their psychology?

I suggest that you keep your criteria for welcoming new members to the group to number 1.

I'll also suggest that you are scaring away people who might have joined (or tried to) with this list. In fact, are you actually serious about a list like that? Usually the type of criteria you are listing happen AFTER a person has joined, if the person turns out to be a destructive troll wreaking havoc: not before they join, because they might.

That list does not feel right.


 

Helen Shiner  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:33
Member (2008)
German to English
+ ...
Intuition May 10

Andrew Morris wrote:

Helen Shiner wrote:

Thank you, Andrew, for outlining your criteria.

How do you go about checking any of this?

PS Eugenics has a much broader and earlier history than was utilised by the Nazi regime, so you are the only one ascribing that meaning to comments made above.


I use my intuition. It’s served me well till now. I reject very few applications. In fact, this may well be a first.

****

Re eugenics, I am aware of its history. However, even before the Nazis its connotations were hardly positive. Associated also with 19th century racism and imperialism. Not exactly uplifting.

My point is that it is a frankly ridiculous word for anyone with half a brain to use in this kind of discussion. And offers total and binding proof that my intuition was in fact correct.


Good, so people can now decide whether they would want to join a group, the acceptance criteria of which are based on your intuition.


 

Tanya Quintieri  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 10:33
Member (2010)
German to English
+ ...
Uhhhmmmm May 10

Maxi Schwarz wrote:

That list does not feel right.


For one, you don't know who Andrew knows or not. It's not like he doesn't have a track record of managing communities. As for the list, it's pretty obvious in the group rules and one would think that people do not see this as a list Andrew consults beforehand, but rather after they've joined, in those cases where Andrew doesn't know the person requesting to join. It's more like a sign on the door that people who want to join look at and decide whether or not they feel that they tick the boxes. If the list feels wrong to you, then you don't identify with it, I assume.


Elizabeth Tamblin
Andrew Morris
 

Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:33
German to English
+ ...
practical question May 10

It is impossible to see what kinds of contents it holds unless you join up. There is a charge of over $60 CAD per annnum after a free trial. To join you must first select whether you want to be billed annually or monthly. If I understand this right, if I don't remember to cancel after the 14 days, I'll be out some money or I'll be owing money, for something I may very well not want --- with no chance to even see what it is about, and if I would want it. On the face of it, it seems to be quit... See more
It is impossible to see what kinds of contents it holds unless you join up. There is a charge of over $60 CAD per annnum after a free trial. To join you must first select whether you want to be billed annually or monthly. If I understand this right, if I don't remember to cancel after the 14 days, I'll be out some money or I'll be owing money, for something I may very well not want --- with no chance to even see what it is about, and if I would want it. On the face of it, it seems to be quite similar to the discussions here. But one can't tell.

So what happens when a person clicks "join"? What happens after those 14 days? Do we have to actively cancel in order to not end up owing or even paying (I don't know if we have to give credit card info or how that part of it works, because I'm not about to click on something I don't understand.)

Btw, the title says "reviews", but when I clicked the link, it brought me to an invitation to join the group. There were also some reviews, but they were generally without substance, and not of a kind as to give an idea what kinds of contents to expect. Usually when I have joined something with paid membership, I was able to see what it was about with some select content before ever taking that step.

Andrew Morris wrote:

Thanks to some excellent feedback from a forum member, we have now added a series of reviews to the Translation Mastermind website*.

A reminder that the Facebook group** is completely free to all ProZ Plus members, and that there is a small monthly or annual charge if you are not a Plus member.

****

Disclaimer: we are well aware that Facebook is not for everyone, and that's just fine.

However, it certainly is for the 950 members (not to mention the 26k members of the main ProZ.com group on FB), and therefore just might be for you too.

*****

* https://translationmastermind.com/product/membership/

** https://www.facebook.com/groups/thetranslationmastermind/
Collapse


 

Tanya Quintieri  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 10:33
Member (2010)
German to English
+ ...
Just me May 10

Helen Shiner wrote:

Good, so people can now decide whether they would want to join a group, the acceptance criteria of which are based on your intuition.


I can't see what's wrong with that.


Elizabeth Tamblin
Andrew Morris
 

Helen Shiner  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:33
Member (2008)
German to English
+ ...
What's wrong May 10

Tanya Quintieri wrote:

Helen Shiner wrote:

Good, so people can now decide whether they would want to join a group, the acceptance criteria of which are based on your intuition.


I can't see what's wrong with that.


I started the sentence with the word "good", so I think it has been useful for people to be clear that Andrew selects people on the basis of his intuition, rather than, say, factual criteria. For some people that will be fine. Others will not like it.


Tanya Quintieri
 

Tanya Quintieri  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 10:33
Member (2010)
German to English
+ ...
To answer your technical questions May 10

Maxi Schwarz wrote:

It is impossible to see what kinds of contents it holds unless you join up. There is a charge of over $60 CAD per annnum after a free trial. To join you must first select whether you want to be billed annually or monthly. If I understand this right, if I don't remember to cancel after the 14 days, I'll be out some money or I'll be owing money, for something I may very well not want --- with no chance to even see what it is about, and if I would want it. On the face of it, it seems to be quite similar to the discussions here. But one can't tell.


Since I am the one who built the website, I'll be happy to answer your questions.

You can join either monthly or annually with a 14-day free trial period.
You receive an email when your subscription is up for renewal.
You can select manual payment or automatic billing.
Neither Andrew nor I have access to your credit card information - this is handled by Stripe and they are bound by laws to keep that info safe.
Not a tech question, but the discussions are not similar to here.

Maxi Schwarz wrote:

So what happens when a person clicks "join"? What happens after those 14 days? Do we have to actively cancel in order to not end up owing or even paying (I don't know if we have to give credit card info or how that part of it works, because I'm not about to click on something I don't understand.)


See above.

Maxi Schwarz wrote:

Btw, the title says "reviews", but when I clicked the link, it brought me to an invitation to join the group. There were also some reviews, but they were generally without substance, and not of a kind as to give an idea what kinds of contents to expect. Usually when I have joined something with paid membership, I was able to see what it was about with some select content before ever taking that step.


Not sure which browser you are using -- the link in the menu should take you to the Join page. BUT, it should automatically scroll down to the review section. Would you be so kind to let me know what browser you are using so that I can take a look at the issue?

As for substance, I am not sure what you would expect. This is the feedback from the members. What exactly would you write in a review? Not sure I understand your objection here.

Edit: Fixed a typo.

[Edited at 2019-05-10 10:43 GMT]

[Edited at 2019-05-10 10:44 GMT]


Andrew Morris
 

Tanya Quintieri  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 10:33
Member (2010)
German to English
+ ...
My bad May 10

Helen Shiner wrote:

Tanya Quintieri wrote:

Helen Shiner wrote:

Good, so people can now decide whether they would want to join a group, the acceptance criteria of which are based on your intuition.


I can't see what's wrong with that.


I started the sentence with the word "good", so I think it has been useful for people to be clear that Andrew selects people on the basis of his intuition, rather than, say, factual criteria. For some people that will be fine. Others will not like it.


Great, then we're on the same page. I misread your sentence, perhaps because of the atmosphere here.


Andrew Morris
 

Elizabeth Tamblin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:33
Member (2012)
French to English
Me neither May 10

Tanya Quintieri wrote:

Helen Shiner wrote:

Good, so people can now decide whether they would want to join a group, the acceptance criteria of which are based on your intuition.


I can't see what's wrong with that.


In the hypothetical situation that somebody showed open contempt for everything Andrew said, his intuition might well tell him that said person might not contribute to the desired atmosphere of the group. Andrew might also suspect such a person's motives for wishing to join.


Andrew Morris
 

Andrew Morris
ProZ.com team
TOPIC STARTER
Don't underestimate intuition May 10

Helen Shiner wrote:

I started the sentence with the word "good", so I think it has been useful for people to be clear that Andrew selects people on the basis of his intuition, rather than, say, factual criteria. For some people that will be fine. Others will not like it.


And that is perfectly fine by me. If people actually just read the reviews instead of speculating, hypothesising and fulminating, they might actually want to try it out.

Intuition has got most of us out of many a scrape in our lives. It's not to be belittled in comparison to 'facts'. Our intuitions are a much older part of us in terms of human evolution. And are, I would argue, especially important when it comes to communities of learning.

As I learned in 20 years of teaching.

And as anyone with a family would know. Intuitively.

@Maxi, I consider 14 days ample for people to decide whether it is a good fit for them or not. For info, 95% of people who take the trial stay on. Some people decide not to renew after a year, which is natural. But about 90% stay on, year in year out. In terms of returns, I am more than happy with that.

However, if you have a different vision of how a group should be set up, then I invite you to go ahead and build a community. It's a snip. Then we can compare notes in 2.5 years' time after daily input on your part.


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 10:33
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Maxi May 10

Maxi Schwarz wrote:
If I understand this right, if I don't remember to cancel after the 14 days, I'll be out some money or I'll be owing money, for something I may very well not want... What happens after those 14 days? Do we have to actively cancel in order to not end up owing or even paying...


I think it's obvious that if you have to provide your credit card details for a free trial, the free trial automatically converts to a paid subscription if you don't cancel your subscription.

If you're wondering whether you can cancel your subscription (and get a refund) after the free trial, you should try to see if there are any listed terms and conditions. And... hey, there are:

The membership fee is payable monthly or annually. ... You [can] cancel your membership ... at any time. If you have ... an annual membership ... you will receive a refund, pro rata to the number of months remaining on your membership. For monthly memberships, you will ... cancel as of the following month.

So it's very fair, in my opinion. Unlike the "no-risk" monthly subscription with a free trial at GeoWorkz.

The title says "reviews", but when I clicked the link, it brought me to an invitation to join the group.


Yes, this is due to bad [modern] web design, I'm afraid. If you go to the reviews in your browser, and then copy/paste the URL that is displayed in your browser, then that URL won't take you or anyone else directly to the page with the reviews on it. There is a way to link to the reviews in such a way that it takes the user to the reviews and not to the sign-up section, if you know how to do it (and I'm guessing this is the link that Andrew meant to paste):

https://translationmastermind.com/product/membership/#tab-reviews


[Edited at 2019-05-10 11:13 GMT]


Andrew Morris
Mr.Q
 

Chris S  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Swedish to English
+ ...
Eugenics and more May 10

Andrew Morris wrote:
"Eugenics ... aims to reduce human suffering by “breeding out” disease, disabilities and so-called undesirable characteristics from the human population."

While not the perfect analogy, it doesn't seem a million miles from the selection policies at Translation Mastermind. Creating a gated community of identikit translators by barring any riffraff who might have undesirable characteristics and, from what I've heard, blocking an awful lot of members for failing to toe the party line.

But come on, once again, it's just a joke. Hyperbole. OK, so you don't get me, but that doesn't exactly make me a force for evil.

For the record, the only Nazi reference was made by the group's Führer.

Damn. Can't help myself!

Tanya Quintieri wrote:
Helen Shiner wrote:
Good, so people can now decide whether they would want to join a group, the acceptance criteria of which are based on your intuition.

I can't see what's wrong with that.

I'd be worried about admission to any group being based on one individual's personal whims.


Elizabeth Tamblin wrote:
In the hypothetical situation that somebody showed open contempt for everything Andrew said, his intuition might well tell him that said person might not contribute to the desired atmosphere of the group. Andrew might also suspect such a person's motives for wishing to join.

Only this hypothetical person hasn't showed open contempt for anything and has been persistently ridiculed and insulted. I'm genuinely interested in how you chose to take the side you have.


Andy Watkinson
IT>EN Legal
 

Andrew Morris
ProZ.com team
TOPIC STARTER
Never trust what you've heard May 10

Chris S wrote:

While not the perfect analogy, ["eugenics"] doesn't seem a million miles from the selection policies at Translation Mastermind.


What can I say but LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Creating a gated community of identikit translators by barring any riffraff


Your word (riffraff) not mine. Most revealing choice.

As for identikit, I would love to hear you say that to any of their faces. Not quivering behind a keyboard, but looking them in the eye.

from what I've heard, blocking an awful lot of members for failing to toe the party line.


Um... factually wrong. Don't know who your sources are but I would bin them and find some honest ones.

As stated above, I have blocked one member from Translation Mastermind (in 2.5 years) who turned out to be extremely aggressive after admission. I have blocked a few people from my personal space on Facebook, as is my perfect right, largely because they waste my time with petty personal attacks (sound familiar?)

But none of them has been anywhere near the TM.

I'd be worried about admission to any group being based on one individual's personal whims.


Well then the misgivings are reciprocal. So I was right all along.

But thanks, as ever, for the massive (unpaid) PR support. I have the stats for website visitors in front of me and they're spiking!


 

Chris S  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Swedish to English
+ ...
@Andrew May 10

Andrew Morris wrote:
As for identikit, I would love to hear you say that to any of their faces. Not quivering behind a keyboard, but looking them in the eye.

I'm talking to you, not them. And it's not an insult, but logic. By stamping on dissent as you are attempting to do here and in the ProZ Facebook group and did previously in the Standing Out group, you'll end up surrounded only by totally likeminded people, which rather defeats the point of having a group and also carries risks for your own personal growth.

Um... factually wrong. (...) I have blocked one member from Translation Mastermind

Sorry, I understood that Translation Mastermind was an extension of the Standing Out group, which by all accounts ended rather messily.

Well then the misgivings are reciprocal. So I was right all along.

Not sure what you're getting at here. Is this another dig?

But thanks, as ever, for the massive (unpaid) PR support. I have the stats for website visitors in front of me and they're spiking!

Fantastic. And I mean that sincerely. It's all very enterprising. How on Earth do you find time to do any translation?


 
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