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Reviews now possible for "Translation Mastermind" (a private FB group included in Plus subscription)
Thread poster: Andrew Morris

Andrew Morris
ProZ.com team
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks May 8

Hi Ildiko

Sure, thanks for spelling out the details. Very useful.

I mentioned payment in passing in my original thread but today’s post was actually aimed more at ProZ Plus people.

But you’re right: good to have everything transparent. The group was started before ProZ.com came on board and offered to partner me. That was in 2017 and the partnership was renewed in 2018 and 2019.


 
Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Empty posting

Andrew Morris
ProZ.com team
TOPIC STARTER
With pleasure May 8

Sorry, I answered Fiona's question "Reviews of what?" before seeing the post had been edited.

They are reviews by group members of the group itself, and they tend to focus on how it benefits them.

There are currently nine (we only began soliciting reviews since being encouraged by he-who-shall-remain-forever-nameless) but they cover a number of angles, because each person comes at this from a different starting point, and language combination, with differing needs. ... See more
Sorry, I answered Fiona's question "Reviews of what?" before seeing the post had been edited.

They are reviews by group members of the group itself, and they tend to focus on how it benefits them.

There are currently nine (we only began soliciting reviews since being encouraged by he-who-shall-remain-forever-nameless) but they cover a number of angles, because each person comes at this from a different starting point, and language combination, with differing needs.

If you add them to the review offered in Sandra's comment above, it gives you a fair cross-section of whether members think they are getting value for money. Most of them come from people who have chosen to pay to join, via the monthly or annual subscription, although there are also a few from Plus members.
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Elizabeth Tamblin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:01
Member (2012)
French to English
What happened there? May 8

Another deleted post.

 

Andrew Morris
ProZ.com team
TOPIC STARTER
Almost deleted... May 8

In fact the post was replaced by two full stops placed vertically, one above the other, although the top one appears to be at an angle of 5 degrees. Highly unusual.

Scholars of Runic script, cuneiform texts and Egyptian hieroglyphs have been called in but are scratching their heads.

We will continue to report as the mystery unfolds.

(Just my little joke, Fiona. Your question was harmless enough).


Elizabeth Tamblin
 

Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 17:01
Member
Italian to English
No mystery... May 8

I posted, then did the research I should have done before posting...
Thanks for the clarification Andrew.


Kay Denney
writeaway
 

Andrew Morris
ProZ.com team
TOPIC STARTER
No worries May 8

My pleasure, Fiona. Hope you found the answers you were looking for.

Elizabeth Tamblin
 

Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 17:01
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
¿? May 9

Andrew Morris wrote:

Wow. Just wow.

Unless that was a different "Tom in London" but with the same face, and the same rather distinctive tone of voice?



Andrew, this is only your second post in this thread and it already reads as if it were written by an irascible, snarky fourteen year-old.

Why?

[Edited at 2019-05-09 00:35 GMT]


Natasha Ziada
writeaway
Rachel Fell
IT>EN Legal
Daniela Zambrini
Erik Freitag
Barbara Carrara
 

Andrew Morris
ProZ.com team
TOPIC STARTER
Small minds discuss people. Average minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas. May 9

Last time it was Hendrix in a bedroom, this time it's an irascible 14 year-old...

And I'm the snarky one?

***

Let's get back to discussing the topic perhaps? I know it's a bit harder than hectoring and taking potshots (which is ALL you've done so far in several comments, Andy – not actually exploring a single idea), but it would really be much more productive all round.

Or maybe if you have nothing to say of any value about the Translation M
... See more
Last time it was Hendrix in a bedroom, this time it's an irascible 14 year-old...

And I'm the snarky one?

***

Let's get back to discussing the topic perhaps? I know it's a bit harder than hectoring and taking potshots (which is ALL you've done so far in several comments, Andy – not actually exploring a single idea), but it would really be much more productive all round.

Or maybe if you have nothing to say of any value about the Translation Mastermind group, then just say nothing?
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Elizabeth Tamblin
 

Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 17:01
Member
Catalan to English
+ ...
No thanks... May 10


Andrew Morris wrote:

Small minds discuss people.




Which is exactly why I questioned your attitude towards and response to Tom (in London) who merely requested his name be removed. A simple thing to do, I imagine.

But instead of obliging and then discussing ideas you felt compelled to post a sarcastic comment in reply to him.

Yet you rebuke me for not "exploring your ideas".

And, pray, what ideas would those be?

Facebook?

No thanks....


Natasha Ziada
 

Andrew Morris
ProZ.com team
TOPIC STARTER
As ideas go... May 10

Facebook is not a bad place to start. It's changed the face of the world, after all, whether particular individuals like it or "approve" or not.

In fact, Facebook, Amazon, Google and the like – and why not ProZ.com itself – are bigger and more visionary ideas than you or I are ever likely to have, I'd wager, sitting in our little offices, tapping away at our texts.

But let's not confuse Facebook (a platform, just like this one) with the Translation Mastermind (a co
... See more
Facebook is not a bad place to start. It's changed the face of the world, after all, whether particular individuals like it or "approve" or not.

In fact, Facebook, Amazon, Google and the like – and why not ProZ.com itself – are bigger and more visionary ideas than you or I are ever likely to have, I'd wager, sitting in our little offices, tapping away at our texts.

But let's not confuse Facebook (a platform, just like this one) with the Translation Mastermind (a community of practice and learning for translators, and the subject – lest we forget(!!) – of this thread).

In intellectual terms, that would be a category error.
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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:01
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Andrew May 10

Andrew Morris wrote:
Tom in London wrote:
Andrew Morris wrote:
Thanks to some excellent feedback from Tom in London, we have now added a series of reviews to the Translation Mastermind website*.

This has got nothing to do with me. Please remove my name from your post.

I was simply trying to credit you for your comment that there were no reviews on the site, which prompted the action.


FWIW, I have not read this thread yet, but I did get notification of the first post, and upon reading it, I had the distinct impression (due to the way it was written) that this was a collaboration between you and Tom. If Tom had not requested the removal of his name (or made some other comment here to clear up any possible confusion), that idea would have stuck with me: i.e. that Tom had had a hand in the creation or design of the review feature.

Andrew Morris wrote:
I am simply astonished by how quickly such a thread can be subverted, mangled and twisted.


Well, when I look at the posts that preceded that comment of yours, to see if I can determine what was it that caused the thread to become "subverted, mangled and twisted", I conclude that it was you yourself that caused it. The best response to Tom's post would have been to edit your post and apologise. Your reply to Tom's request is 5 paragraphs long, of which 1 is an apology and the rest are unambiguously flame bait. You always seem to bait, and then act surprised when something bites.

Besides, at the time when the thread had "subverted, mangled and twisted", there was only 1 bite (I do not count Tom's post as a bite).

I also agree with Katalin: if you post an announcement in a discussion forum, and you don't lock the announcement, then you are inviting a discussion.

And due to the non-threaded design of these forums (compared to Facebook's 2-deep threaded view), a reply may be to any of the posts up to that point, and all replies carry equal weight and almost just as much weight as the original post. This means If someone makes an announcement in post #1, and posts flame bait in post #3 (and continues to fan in subsequent posts), it's unsurprising that the rest of the thread will be about things that are unrelated to the announcement in post #1.

[Edited at 2019-05-10 06:18 GMT]


Natasha Ziada
Jennifer White
IT>EN Legal
 

Andrew Morris
ProZ.com team
TOPIC STARTER
@Samuel May 10

Samuel Murray wrote:


FWIW, I have not read this thread yet, but I did get notification of the first post, and upon reading it, I had the distinct impression (due to the way it was written) that this was a collaboration between you and Tom. If Tom had not requested the removal of his name (or made some other comment here to clear up any possible confusion), that idea would have stuck with me: i.e. that Tom had had a hand in the creation or design of the review feature.




Well I would certainly be more than happy to rephrase that if it was the impression created. Personally I don't feel that "Thanks to some excellent feedback from XXX" suggests any kind of collaboration.

The facts are these:

1) Tom made a critical comment about the fact that the Reviews section of the website (which he referred to repeatedly – perhaps "wryly"? – as "Translation Mistressmind") was empty.
2) I took note of the comment and resolved to address the situation.
3) A few days later, said Reviews section was filled with positive comments from a variety of members.
4) I credited Tom for his excellent feedback.

I don't think that implies that Tom and I were a team, working closely on anything. But if that highly unlikely impression were in fact created, I will happily withdraw it.

PS Thanks to the various comments on me, my writing style, my mental age, or my personality, rather than the Translation Mastermind itself, this thread keeps returning to the top of the 'table' and therefore driving more and more people towards the group, for which ProZ.com and I are immensely grateful.


 

Andrew Morris

Posted via
ProZ.com Mobile



ProZ.com team
TOPIC STARTER
Still waiting May 10

Samuel Murray wrote:

I also agree with Katalin: if you post an announcement in a discussion forum, and you don't lock the announcement, then you are inviting a discussion.



Yes I did invite a discussion. And am still waiting for one. But about the topic of the thread? Anyone???


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:01
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Andrew II May 10

Andrew Morris wrote:
The facts are these:
Tom made a critical comment... I took note of the comment and resolved to address the situation. ... I credited Tom for his excellent feedback.


1. I think something you have to keep in mind is that you credited him in a separate thread in a different subforum.

The people who read your announcement are not the same people who read the thread in which Tom made his comments and in which it was clear what Tom's opinions and feelings were. There are a few of us who read each and every thread on the ProZ.com forums, but a lot of people don't. And even people who do read at least the first post of every thread do not read every post of every thread.

2. As for the thread unraveling, I think a good approach with announcements is to make the announcement and then monitor the thread for any comments that indicate that anything in the announcement was unclear. Then, if it becomes apparent that something is unclear, clarify it without offering extraneous comments.

As the thread poster, I think you have an implied responsibility to your announcement's success by trying to ensure that the thread stays on-topic as much as possible, and that means posting replies that relate only to the announcement.

Engaging with off-topic posts will simply unravel the thread further and make it lose its benefit (beneficiality... what's the correct English?) for subsequent readers.

3. As for Chris' post, in my experience one has to expect that if you post a URL to a restricted page, without telling people that it is a restricted page, people will have a negative experience when they try to visit the URL, and often will post a complaint or comment to warn other readers that the URL is restricted. The warning may be simple and neutral, or it may be somewhat ironic or sarcastic (in the case of Chris' post).

Best practice is to use such a complaint as an opportunity to clarify the matter politely and in such a way that readers will leave the discussion with a pleasant experience.



[Edited at 2019-05-10 07:03 GMT]


Daniela Zambrini
Catherine Howard
 
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