| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Translating *from* mother tongue Thread poster: Gregory Lassale
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Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 11:34
Romanian to English
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| in my opinion, much ado about nothing | Oct 25, 2018 |
I have been translating letters rogatory for the US DOJ to and from my native language and I noticed one thing: the American-born and US educated linguist who QC-ed my translations makes more conceptual mistakes (legal matters) when he reviews my translations.
For 25 years the DOJ has been very happy with my translations and I never received a complaint. I also have to mention that I am not a linguist.
Therefore, it depends on the specifics of the field. If it is literature... See more I have been translating letters rogatory for the US DOJ to and from my native language and I noticed one thing: the American-born and US educated linguist who QC-ed my translations makes more conceptual mistakes (legal matters) when he reviews my translations.
For 25 years the DOJ has been very happy with my translations and I never received a complaint. I also have to mention that I am not a linguist.
Therefore, it depends on the specifics of the field. If it is literature, of course it is better to translate into the native language. For scientific, medical, legal ... who cares about the native or non-native. Many of us are also interpreters who interpret both ways in medical, legal, government settings.
Why should it be different when translating?
My2c. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Trevino Translations (X)
France
Local time: 17:34
French to English
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| Confidence and perhaps a proofreader | Oct 26, 2018 |
If you are confident that your translation will be well-done, I don't see why you cannot agree to it, especially as it is part of a larger project that is in your preferred language pair and the level of language required is not that difficult. For quality control, why not just ask a translator friend (who IS a native speaker) to quickly proofread your work for you?
Cdlt
| | | | Phil Hand 
China
Local time: 23:34
Chinese to English
I basically agree with the sentiment that if the client OKs it then you're OK. But at the same time, I think you have a duty to educate the client on what they're going to get. The content of the text does make a difference here. I've done this kind of material, and had to run through thousands of variations on a theme of "Why is the canteen food so bad?" For that, I would agree that nuance is not vital, and you can probably deliver this service perfectly competently.
On the other ... See more I basically agree with the sentiment that if the client OKs it then you're OK. But at the same time, I think you have a duty to educate the client on what they're going to get. The content of the text does make a difference here. I've done this kind of material, and had to run through thousands of variations on a theme of "Why is the canteen food so bad?" For that, I would agree that nuance is not vital, and you can probably deliver this service perfectly competently.
On the other hand, if the form includes questions like "What does your manager do well and what does he/she do badly?" and the respondents are going to give rather subtle, diplomatic answers, then you might want to reconsider. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The subtle bits are the ones that (perhaps) call for a source-language native | Oct 27, 2018 |
Phil Hand wrote:
…
I've done this kind of material, and had to run through thousands of variations on a theme of "Why is the canteen food so bad?" For that, I would agree that nuance is not vital, and you can probably deliver this service perfectly competently.
On the other hand, if the form includes questions like "What does your manager do well and what does he/she do badly?" and the respondents are going to give rather subtle, diplomatic answers, then you might want to reconsider.
Irony, subtlety and understatement are the most challenging things to translate, partly because you have to catch them in the first place! With possibly limited space and no tone of voice to help, this is where a source-language native somewhere in the process is an advantage, if not a necessity.
Danes are masters of understatement in some situations, and I have seen from proof-reading how difficult it can be to catch what they really mean. No guarantee that I always do myself, but after living for decades in Denmark, I have a better chance than many English natives.
Even Danes don't always catch the subtleties, at least when caught off guard! My husband fired off a slightly backward compliment a couple of weeks ago among a group of friends, and we wondered afterwards whether the recipient actually caught it, or whether she took it at face value and was offended.
I am glad I don't have to explain THAT in English.
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Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:34
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Much truth there | Nov 2, 2018 |
Mario Cerutti wrote:
...the Japanese native speaker is likely to produce a more reliable translation (technically speaking), is much quicker when doing researches on a given topic and, last but not least, or perhaps most important of all, costs less—sometimes much less—than non-Japanese translators whom needing much longer to attain the same cannot but cost more.
Mario, you make some excellent points.
The issue is that although Japanese native speakers are generally more likely to understand the Japanese better in extreme cases, they also are more likely to create English that is not only infelicitous, but also genuinely problematic.
Japanese clients generally attach a higher importance to getting the Japanese right, because that is what they can see and understand. In doing so they underestimate the problems caused by not getting the English right. Because they lack a subtle understanding of the target language, they only see one side of the risk equation.
I had a tussle not so long ago with somebody who was determined to use "Offensive management" for 攻めの経営 in the financial report of a very large Japanese company. "XYZ Practices Offensive Management" was one idea being floated. In terms of the grammar it was correct. In terms of the potential damage to reputation it was a poor choice.
I was not responsible for that section, but I noticed it in passing and advised the client to reconsider. There was some resistance and it took several pithy emails, with examples of how "offensive" is typically used in everyday English, and an explanation of the connotations that "offensive" holds for most people, before they reined in the native speaker who had translated this and changed it.
More commonly, Japanese native speakers just produce painfully literal and stilted English, as you note above. That's a major cause of Japan's reputation for terrible English, in my opinion.
These days my work is typically checked by native speakers of Japanese with a very good grasp of English. I think that's the best combination. The proofreader is the second line of defense against misunderstandings of the source, and they generally trust me to produce good English. However, they are not afraid to query the English and their questions are usually sensible and considered. It works well.
Regarding costs, I have been reliably informed by more than one person that Japanese translators going from English to Japanese can charge higher rates on average than native speakers of English going from Japanese to English! Sounds crazy to me. It may be different in specialisations.
Regards,
Dan
| | | | Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 23:34
Member
Chinese to English
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Regarding costs, I have been reliably informed by more than one person that Japanese translators going from English to Japanese can charge higher rates on average than native speakers of English going from Japanese to English! Sounds crazy to me. It may be different in specialisations.
You sure it's not just a word density issue?
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:34
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Lincoln Hui wrote:
You sure it's not just a word density issue?
No, I didn't really think of that. Then again, the rate I was quoted was per character, so...?
Dan
| | | | Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 23:34
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
I mean, my Chinese to English rate is slightly lower than my English to Chinese rate per word, and the former is far more profitable given similar competence in both directions. The ratio in terms of word count is somewhere between 1:1.5-1:2. I would guess things are similar with Japanese.
...heck, I don't need to guess. Chapter 6 of Hound of the Baskervilles is 3490 English words. My Japanese translation that I did as homework has 7240 words, and I don't inflate my word count with ... See more I mean, my Chinese to English rate is slightly lower than my English to Chinese rate per word, and the former is far more profitable given similar competence in both directions. The ratio in terms of word count is somewhere between 1:1.5-1:2. I would guess things are similar with Japanese.
...heck, I don't need to guess. Chapter 6 of Hound of the Baskervilles is 3490 English words. My Japanese translation that I did as homework has 7240 words, and I don't inflate my word count with unnecessary hiragana.
[Edited at 2018-11-02 20:08 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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paula arturo
United States
Local time: 11:34
Spanish to English
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| Language is not all that's at stake | Nov 3, 2018 |
I don’t usually comment on these forums, but as a lawyer-linguist and former ethics professor, this thread really caught my attention. So many wonderful questions were raised here!
There was a really interesting report published a while back by the International Association of Professional Translators and Interpreters that found that translating from your native language into your L2 is a pretty standard practice in some parts of the world, and many times the reason for that is s... See more I don’t usually comment on these forums, but as a lawyer-linguist and former ethics professor, this thread really caught my attention. So many wonderful questions were raised here!
There was a really interesting report published a while back by the International Association of Professional Translators and Interpreters that found that translating from your native language into your L2 is a pretty standard practice in some parts of the world, and many times the reason for that is strictly financial: clients in the developing world would love to have their texts translated by native speakers, but if your target language is English and you are located in Peru, for example, you’re not likely to be able to afford a native English speaker in your target country.
In addition, many university programs actually train translators on how to translate into their L2. This is particularly true of universities in parts of the world that have “sworn legal translators” or equivalents and where translation is an undergrad course.
As someone who lives in a middle-income country (Argentina), I can understand the financial constraints that lead clients to hire non-native speakers and also understand my colleagues who have been taught in school that translating into their non-native language is perfectly OK because they have a university degree in translation. But those same schools also often teach them that they can translate pretty much any subject-matter as well. In addition, the collegial bodies that issue their licenses often promote minimum fees that are 3 or 4 times lower than what the market will allow (I’m refraining from referring to a “standard fee” on purpose because I don’t think such a concept exists, but that’s a whole other discussion).
In short, it’s a complex matter and the decision isn’t always just linguistic. In my humble opinion, the best translation is rendered by someone who: 1) is a subject-matter expert that truly understands the source text; 2) is an exceptional writer in the target language and is able to convey nuance and other complexities; and 3) can rationally balance fidelity to source and transparency so the translated text is both precise and accurate while reading and "flowing" naturally. ▲ Collapse
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