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Discussion: Do translators like to work with an agency that ask for a sample
Thread poster: MttMortensen
MttMortensen
MttMortensen  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:56
Jul 30, 2019

Hello,

I work as a Vendor Manger for an LSP, and recently i have been updating our sample process and how we can test and record a translator's skill level. Currently, any new vendor is required to provide translation on a sample of ours that is less than 250 words. We ask that these samples be Pro Bono since this will be one of the deciding factors on choosing translators for projects (we look at other areas as well, timeliness, professionalism, etc.).

My questions,
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Hello,

I work as a Vendor Manger for an LSP, and recently i have been updating our sample process and how we can test and record a translator's skill level. Currently, any new vendor is required to provide translation on a sample of ours that is less than 250 words. We ask that these samples be Pro Bono since this will be one of the deciding factors on choosing translators for projects (we look at other areas as well, timeliness, professionalism, etc.).

My questions, or really wanting to know the other side is how do translators feel about the sample request? I can understand it can be frustrating, especially if you're a senior translator who has been in the industry 15+ years. Few other questions that also come up are; Should a sample be asked for upon each new vendor? Or when a client specifically asks for one? Should the vendor in question provide their own sample or complete one of ours? And finally, what are some ways you would prefer to have sample graded/reviewed? By another translator? Or maybe even an agency?

Again, i'm trying to get a different perspective on this topic. I've had a lot of vendors refuse sample requests and even any further collaboration with our company. Any comments, thoughts or questions would be appreciated.

Best,
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Richard Purdom
Richard Purdom  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 15:56
Dutch to English
+ ...
I don't mind Jul 30, 2019

I don't mind as long as I get feedback, it actually costs the agency time and effort too so fair enough.
As for years of experience, translators are like any other professionals: always some who have been delivering rubbish for 15 years or more!


MttMortensen
IrinaN
Jianrong Sun
 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 16:56
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Jeremy (or is it Matt?) Jul 30, 2019

MttMortensen wrote:
My questions, or really wanting to know the other side is how do translators feel about the sample request?


I try to get the agency to agree on a rate before doing the test translation, but I can't always manage that. So, my willingness to do a free test translation depends on (a) whether I have time to do it, (b) whether the type(s) of job(s) seem promising and (c) whether the project manager gave a good impression when presenting his agency. A good impression will go a long way to convince me to do a free test.

Should a sample be asked for upon each new vendor? Or when a client specifically asks for one?


It is appreciated if a project manager is honest enough to tell me that the test is something that they ask all new vendors to do, and that it doesn't mean that there is a potential job. However, knowing that it is (or isn't) for a specific job doesn't affect my willingness to do the test. That said, what does affect my willingness is if I suspect that the agency hasn't actually been awarded the job yet, but is simply bidding on it with lots of other agencies, so that my test translation is only one of many variables that can affect the odds of me getting the job.

Should the vendor in question provide their own sample or complete one of ours?


I prefer that the agency supplies their own text. If not, then I refer them to my ProZ.com profile page where I translated a section of a Wikipedia page.

And finally, what are some ways you would prefer to have sample graded/reviewed? By another translator? Or maybe even an agency?


I prefer to get feedback on the test (whether the test is paid or not), especially if I had "failed" the test. However, knowing beforehand whether feedback will be given (or knowing that no feedback will be given) doesn't affect my willingness to do the test. (If I do get feedback and I disagree with some of it, I let the PM know, but I keep it short and I don't push the issue.) I don't care if the feedback is from a translator or an editor, although I'm more critical of negative feedback if the person doesn't actually work in my languages.


[Edited at 2019-07-30 20:15 GMT]


MttMortensen
Hedwig Spitzer (X)
Angie Garbarino
 
MttMortensen
MttMortensen  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:56
TOPIC STARTER
Good to know! Jul 30, 2019

Richard Purdom wrote:

I don't mind as long as I get feedback, it actually costs the agency time and effort too so fair enough.
As for years of experience, translators are like any other professionals: always some who have been delivering rubbish for 15 years or more!


Thanks for replying, Richard. After providing translation, do you then expect to get some sort of project after? Or just enjoy receiving the feedback?


 
Fabio Descalzi
Fabio Descalzi  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 12:56
Member (2004)
German to Spanish
+ ...
Been hired already Jul 30, 2019

Hi people.
I have been over 15 years around in this activity and several agencies asked for a sample translation. And I cannot complain: out of 3, 2 happened to hire me. Those hiring me had sent very technical sample texts, they were clearly looking for a person with seniority / expertise in that given field. And those who didn't bother to answer... well, either I was not good enough in that given field, or they were just "casting their nets"...


MARIA GEMA ARIAS MUÑOZ
 
MttMortensen
MttMortensen  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:56
TOPIC STARTER
@Samuel Jul 30, 2019

It is appreciated if a project manager is honest enough to tell me that the test is something that they ask all new vendors to do, and that it doesn't mean that there is a potential job. However, knowing that it is (or isn't) for a specific job doesn't affect my willingness to do the test. That said, what does affect my willingness is if I suspect that the agency hasn't actually been awarded the job yet, but is simply bidding on it with lots of other agencies, so that my test translation is only one of many variables that can affect the odds of me getting the job.


I would say this is the problem I run into a lot, when i'm asked to look for a new vendor and they need to do a sample it's usually just for a bid and no project has been awarded but i'm told to do so, so that we can "be prepared" for when it does get rewarded but i believe that's too big of a risk to ask the translator, especially it's a new vendor (i also believe first impression is huge, and situations like this really leave me sour). Does this situation happen to you often?


 
Kevin Fulton
Kevin Fulton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:56
German to English
Short sample not objectionable Jul 30, 2019

Some translators view doing sample translations as "free work" and object on principle. To me, a sample represents an hour of marketing activity. I've heard, however, that some agencies use a standard "official" translation of the sample which is then used by administrative personnel (with little knowledge of the source language) to evaluate submitted translations. This can lead to a number of otherwise qualified translators being rejected.

What many, if not most, translators object
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Some translators view doing sample translations as "free work" and object on principle. To me, a sample represents an hour of marketing activity. I've heard, however, that some agencies use a standard "official" translation of the sample which is then used by administrative personnel (with little knowledge of the source language) to evaluate submitted translations. This can lead to a number of otherwise qualified translators being rejected.

What many, if not most, translators object to is a lot of administrative-related paperwork and having to jump through hoops to get paid. Several years ago I dropped an agency client since I was spending more time reporting the work than actually doing the translation/review. I should have known at the start that the administrative overhead would be a headache, but the initial job was interesting, so I persevered. A half-dozen assignments later, I gave up. Even stopping work was a hassle: I was sent more paperwork to fill out.
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John Fossey
Diana Obermeyer
 
Richard Purdom
Richard Purdom  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 15:56
Dutch to English
+ ...
not just feedback Jul 30, 2019

MttMortensen wrote:

Richard Purdom wrote:

I don't mind as long as I get feedback, it actually costs the agency time and effort too so fair enough.
As for years of experience, translators are like any other professionals: always some who have been delivering rubbish for 15 years or more!


Thanks for replying, Richard. After providing translation, do you then expect to get some sort of project after? Or just enjoy receiving the feedback?


I think the agency would only ask if they were interested in some sort of collaboration, I don't just want feedback and I don't imagine they would only want to give feedback! In fact, I've acquired lots of new clients by doing test translations. Only on one occasion did an agency say a test piece wasn't good enough, but the screener was 'too busy' to say why. That is extremely irritating, to say the least.
What I don't appreciate is an agency with which i already have a working relationship asking for a test translation for a new client. In such a case I've already proved my worth, and that should be paid IMO (usually is if the situation ever arises in NL to ENG).


 
Veronica Tolosa
Veronica Tolosa
Argentina
Local time: 12:56
Spanish to English
+ ...
I don't know Jul 30, 2019

It is quite frustrating to learn that a potential client does not trust your skills enough and he/she has to ask for a test or a sample.
Many of us have a degree in translation, attended University and have been working for several years. It is not our fault if the market has downgraded the quality by hiring unprofessional people who just happen to know the language.
Nevertheless, I never object to these practices or refuse to perform a test. But I refuse to provide a sample due to c
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It is quite frustrating to learn that a potential client does not trust your skills enough and he/she has to ask for a test or a sample.
Many of us have a degree in translation, attended University and have been working for several years. It is not our fault if the market has downgraded the quality by hiring unprofessional people who just happen to know the language.
Nevertheless, I never object to these practices or refuse to perform a test. But I refuse to provide a sample due to confidentiality reasons.
Hope my answer helps!
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Joshua Parker
Joshua Parker
Mexico
Local time: 08:56
Member (2016)
Spanish to English
+ ...
A mere coincidence? Jul 31, 2019

Well, I work on a semi-regular basis with a half a dozen or so agencies (most of my work comes from direct clients or colleagues who outsource work to me), none of which I've ever done a test for.

Conversely, I've done tests for another half a dozen or so agencies, all of which I passed (or so they said), and none of these agencies has ever sent any work my way.*

In light of this, nowadays I almost always refuse any unpaid translation test. In addition to my CV detailin
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Well, I work on a semi-regular basis with a half a dozen or so agencies (most of my work comes from direct clients or colleagues who outsource work to me), none of which I've ever done a test for.

Conversely, I've done tests for another half a dozen or so agencies, all of which I passed (or so they said), and none of these agencies has ever sent any work my way.*

In light of this, nowadays I almost always refuse any unpaid translation test. In addition to my CV detailing my credentials, and references from clients, there are plenty of samples of my work available online, which I am happy to provide links to.

That should be sufficient to give the client confidence to trust me with at least a small initial project, I would like to think.

I'd only accept an unpaid translation test if a) I had no translation work to be getting on with; b) we'd agreed on a rate beforehand (and the agency seems serious and genuine); and c) the project was of particular interest to me. These three criteria, and in particular a), are very, very rarely all met.


* This is not strictly true. One did offer work on a few occasions, but at rates about a fifth of what we agreed, which is even worse, as they were just wasting my time even more.
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Jan Truper
 
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 15:56
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
My take on samples Jul 31, 2019

As I’ve been translating full-time since 1985 I always find both rejuvenating and amusing when I’m asked for a test or a sample, though I understand that sometimes it might be useful to see how a translator treats this or that particular sentence (in literature or journalism, for instance). If I’m really interested in a job I'll be happy to do a short translation test (300/400 words maximum), providing we have already agreed on price and payment and there is no deadline set for the test, s... See more
As I’ve been translating full-time since 1985 I always find both rejuvenating and amusing when I’m asked for a test or a sample, though I understand that sometimes it might be useful to see how a translator treats this or that particular sentence (in literature or journalism, for instance). If I’m really interested in a job I'll be happy to do a short translation test (300/400 words maximum), providing we have already agreed on price and payment and there is no deadline set for the test, so I can do it at my own pace. For confidentiality reasons as I have signed NDAs with most of the agencies I have been working with, I don’t provide samples of my work, except for those on my Proz profile. I must say that I would rather do a translation test (free or paid) than sending diplomas, references and the like and having to fill endless forms. Anyway, that’s how I got some of my best clients (direct clients and translation agencies) and some of my highest-paid assignments.Collapse


 
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Germany
Local time: 16:56
English to German
In memoriam
No objections, but please reduce the red tape to a minimum Jul 31, 2019

I have no objections against taking a short free test, since I have no translation degree to show and I understand that an agency needs to know me a little better, particularly if the agency is six time zones away and knows me only as an email address. Trust must be built gradually and mutually.

What annoys me most with agencies is the degree of bureaucracy involved. I want to do productive work. Filling out long-winded checklists before or after every project, being forced to use u
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I have no objections against taking a short free test, since I have no translation degree to show and I understand that an agency needs to know me a little better, particularly if the agency is six time zones away and knows me only as an email address. Trust must be built gradually and mutually.

What annoys me most with agencies is the degree of bureaucracy involved. I want to do productive work. Filling out long-winded checklists before or after every project, being forced to use useless QA systems that generate 99.9% false alarms, or completing additional Excel reports as invoice attachments, these activities steal my time and add no quality. The best agencies are those who have streamlined these processes so that the translator can focus on translating.
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Christine Andersen
Diana Obermeyer
MttMortensen
Dan Lucas
Joshua Parker
Jocelyne Cuenin
Adam Warren
 
Christine Andersen
Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 16:56
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
I happily do tests Jul 31, 2019

Several agencies I have worked for very happily started out by sending me tests, and I have assessed tests for at least one of them. Others, admittedly, have sent tests, but never any paid jobs.
I regard tests as a two-way process - they give me an impression of the agency, and I may like them, or I make a note never to work for them, even if they do offer me jobs...

I know that there is probably not a specific job following on from a given test, as the administration takes to
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Several agencies I have worked for very happily started out by sending me tests, and I have assessed tests for at least one of them. Others, admittedly, have sent tests, but never any paid jobs.
I regard tests as a two-way process - they give me an impression of the agency, and I may like them, or I make a note never to work for them, even if they do offer me jobs...

I know that there is probably not a specific job following on from a given test, as the administration takes too long as a rule.
Also that a translator is not just a translator. Now in the holiday season, I have been doing jobs that would normally be sent to others, and it is - let's say - interesting to see how they have done earlier work. I still learn new tricks now and then from checking websites and TMs to see how others have solved the issues.

Style can be very important in some of the jobs I do, and I am NOT offended if my style does not fit everywhere. I am past pension age, geeky about a few subjects and totally ignorant about others... That can be another good reason for asking for a sample.

I don´t do a lot of tests, maybe half a dozen in a year.
I don't care a lot about feedback, I am afraid, apart from whether the agency is interested in working with me. I have plenty of clients who like the way I write, so I am probably not going to change!
I agree on rates and other terms before I agree to do a test, but if the whole process gives me a good impression of the agency, then that is fine.
___________________________________________

I am not convinced that those awful QA analyses are worth the time spent on them, quite the opposite. I have seen masses of cases where, if the original translators had been given the extra day to sleep on the translation and revise it themselves, the results would have been far better than running a rushed job past a couple of revisers and checkers, also rushed for time.

What I really hate are those portals that are so secure that it takes me half an hour to break in to download the files, and then they demand a new password when I try to send an invoice.
One of my clients has Plunet set up so that it really is efficient. I can use their online TMs without trouble, so I am not opposed to portals on principle.
I can always get hold of a real, qualified person if necessary, and that makes a big difference. They can find answers to questions before they escalate into problems.
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MARIA GEMA ARIAS MUÑOZ
IrinaN
 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:56
Member (2004)
English to Italian
I don't do them... Jul 31, 2019

if I'm contacted, I don't expect to be asked to take one... if I contact the agency, and they ask for a test, it usually doesn't go anywhere because my rate is invariably too high...

DZiW (X)
Angie Garbarino
MARIA GEMA ARIAS MUÑOZ
 
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:56
French to English
. Jul 31, 2019

As a PM I remember being impressed with a translator who said he wouldn't do it for free, even when we were bidding for a job. He promised to refund the cost of the sample if we could prove to him that we didn't get the job because the sample was badly translated.

I don't mind doing a short translation for free but only if there really is a job in the pipeline and all else has been agreed. There's an agency I have done tests for, but they have never come back to me with work furthe
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As a PM I remember being impressed with a translator who said he wouldn't do it for free, even when we were bidding for a job. He promised to refund the cost of the sample if we could prove to him that we didn't get the job because the sample was badly translated.

I don't mind doing a short translation for free but only if there really is a job in the pipeline and all else has been agreed. There's an agency I have done tests for, but they have never come back to me with work further to any particular test. They always offer to pay. At first I said I'd do it for free, but now I bill, because it seems that's all they want me for. They did also have me translate their website. I get the impression I'm too expensive for their clients, but for themselves they only want the best
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Michele Fauble
MARIA GEMA ARIAS MUÑOZ
 
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Discussion: Do translators like to work with an agency that ask for a sample







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