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What's your take on TM Town?
Thread poster: Joëlle Bouille
FarkasAndras
FarkasAndras  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:43
English to Hungarian
+ ...
tokenizer Jan 3, 2016

Kevin Dias wrote:
This is our segmentation library which we released as open source software under the MIT license. You are free to improve it and submit a pull request. I would greatly welcome that. Our library does perform very favorably in terms of accuracy when compared against other libraries though as you can see here.



Interesting. I might consider replacing the sentence segmenter in LF Aligner with your segmenter. Can I package it into a standalone .exe, pass a utf-8 txt and language code to it and get back a utf-8 txt with line breaks at sentence boundaries?

Also, how were the abbreviations collected? Some of the abbrev lists are very extensive, while some not-so-small languages are missing entirely.

[Edited at 2016-01-03 16:05 GMT]


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:43
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Every day Jan 3, 2016

Joëlle Bouille wrote:

..... sooner or later, true knowledge and quality will win out over automated processes and intellectual laziness.


Not "sooner or later" but every day, here and now.


 
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Local time: 18:43
@FarkasAndras Jan 3, 2016

FarkasAndras wrote:

Can I package it into a standalone .exe, pass a utf-8 txt and language code to it and get back a utf-8 txt with line breaks at sentence boundaries?


Yes, I'll send you an email.

FarkasAndras wrote:

Also, how were the abbreviations collected? Some of the abbrev lists are very extensive, while some not-so-small languages are missing entirely.


Translators/linguists helped out for the different languages. We tried to do as many as we could given the resources we had. If you or anyone else would like to help out by adding abbreviations or example test sentences for any languages that are missing/lacking it would be very helpful and greatly appreciated.


 
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Local time: 18:43
Yes, give the power back to the specialized freelance translator Jan 3, 2016

Joëlle Bouille wrote:

Speaking of giants, I think future will be the end of giants making huge money on those who do the actual work, on “the masses”.

I think future will be discernment and empowerment of “the masses”, thanks to universal access to knowledge – reliable and meaningful knowledge.

I think the future of translation will bring an increasing divide between quality-oriented LINGUIST-like translation on the one hand (i.e. the “writer’s approach” to translation), and automation-oriented machine-like “hard discount” translation on the other (i.e. the “software developer/programmer’s approach” to translation). This divide is already there (and it certainly doesn’t favor machine-translation or PEMT, considering overall quality of written materials keeps decreasing).

And once we reach the absolute bottom of the writing pit, I think the flaws of automated approaches will become obvious for everyone, and will promote a return to “old-school” quality-oriented approaches, which exclude any PM handling any language she/he knows nothing about.


I think you hit on exactly what we are trying to do at TM-Town. We are trying to give the power back to the individual specialized translator. The freelance professional whose focus is on quality and domain knowledge.

TM-Town's goal is to help the professional specialized translator find more work in his/her field(s) and get introduced to the clients who care about 'quality-oriented LINGUIST-like translation'. Our goal is to help clients who need specialized translators find you directly, instead of having to go through 'giants making huge money on those who do the actual work'.

This is not to say that large translation agencies don't provide value, they certainly do...but not every company is a Honda, Facebook, Toyota, etc. that needs the coordination of hundreds of translators and proofreaders across many language pairs. I think there are many small and medium-size businesses that could benefit by easily being able to directly go to the specialized freelance translator.


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:43
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Nobody Jan 3, 2016

Kevin Dias wrote:

We are trying to give the power back to the individual specialized translator.


I am an individual specialized translator. My power is my professionalism and skill. Nobody has ever taken this power away, so I don't need anyone to give it back to me.


 
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Local time: 18:43
@Tom Jan 4, 2016

That's great. It is entirely possible to have a successful and thriving business without using any services or tools. One could have a successful translation business without even having an Internet connection.

However, there are many specialized translators out there that do have a use and need for tools to help them grow their business.


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:43
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Still advertising Jan 4, 2016

Kevin Dias wrote:

That's great.


I know.

It is entirely possible to have a successful and thriving business without using any services or tools. One could have a successful translation business without even having an Internet connection.


In fact I was a successful translator, specialised in my subject areas, before the Internet existed. Being a successful translator does not depend on technology but on how skilful and professional you are as a specialised translator.

there are many specialized translators out there that do have a use and need for tools to help them grow their business.


Have you the statistics for this, or are you just guessing?

I do find it a botheration that this advertising campaign for your product continues to be permitted in these forums.


 
Erik Freitag
Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 11:43
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Agree: Advertising Jan 4, 2016

Tom in London wrote;

I do find it a botheration that this advertising campaign for your product continues to be permitted in these forums.


I agree! While it is prohibited to even mention the name of other sites like proz.com, Kevin's product enjoys massive exposition in the fora and other parts of proz.com.


 
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Local time: 18:43
@Tom Jan 4, 2016

Tom in London wrote:

Have you the statistics for this, or are you just guessing?


I have the data of the translators who have signed up for TM-Town and actively use it. I can also click on my ProZ.com profile and see that I am the 1,979,687th person that signed up (to a service/tool which you are a paying member). I'd say that is an indication there are those who have a use and need for tools to help them grow their translation business.

Tom in London wrote:

I do find it a botheration that this advertising campaign for your product continues to be permitted in these forums.


I didn't start this thread (or any of the other threads)... but yes I will reply to correct misinformation.


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:43
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I am signed up too Jan 4, 2016

Kevin Dias wrote:

I I can also click on my ProZ.com profile and see that I am the 1,979,687th person that signed up (to a service/tool which you are a paying member). .


What is " a service/tool which you are a paying member"?

I speak English but that statement makes no sense.

I too am "signed up" against my will, to have the TM Town thing appear annoyingly every time I look at my profile.

A promise has been made, by Proz. that this will be removed.

I hope it happens soon. Until then the nuisance will continue.


 
Joëlle Bouille
Joëlle Bouille  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 11:43
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
1,979,687 Proz profiles... among which 4,217 Certified Pros... Jan 4, 2016

That's 2‰ (2 in 1,000).

I'm not saying only Certified Pros are reliable and qualified, of course, but that's interesting information, quality-wise.

Let's keep things in perspective...


PS:

- This result is returned here: http://www.proz.com/translation-center/find-providers/translators/1287596
and
... See more
That's 2‰ (2 in 1,000).

I'm not saying only Certified Pros are reliable and qualified, of course, but that's interesting information, quality-wise.

Let's keep things in perspective...


PS:

- This result is returned here: http://www.proz.com/translation-center/find-providers/translators/1287596
and for translators translating from English to any language, with pair among 2 top pairs and native proficiency in the target (alpha version of the search tool).

Not sure everyone has access, maybe just Certified Pros.

A similar search tool is available here: http://search.proz.com/connect/find/1287596?classic_hybrid=y (beta version, still behaving a bit whimsically when you change search criteria, for example, when you try to search for any language to any language)

But according to this blog post (http://prozcomblog.com/2012/05/10/proz-com-certified-pro-network-3000-members-and-counting/), there were 3,000 Certified Pros in May 2012.

It seems impossible to know how many there are now, using available search tools.


- And as for the over 1,979,687 profiles created, how many are actually still "active"?

I randomly picked one number and incremented it by 1 several times:

#1972349?: no one
http://www.proz.com/translator/1972349
http://www.proz.com/profile/1972349
http://www.proz.com/interpreter/1972349

#1972350?: no one
http://www.proz.com/translator/1972350
http://www.proz.com/profile/1972350
http://www.proz.com/interpreter/1972350

#1972352?: no one
http://www.proz.com/translator/1972352
http://www.proz.com/profile/1972352
http://www.proz.com/interpreter/1972352

#1972353?: no one
http://www.proz.com/translator/1972353
http://www.proz.com/profile/1972353
http://www.proz.com/interpreter/1972353

#1972355?: no one
http://www.proz.com/translator/1972355
http://www.proz.com/profile/1972355
http://www.proz.com/interpreter/1972355

#1972356?: no one
http://www.proz.com/translator/1972356
http://www.proz.com/profile/1972356
http://www.proz.com/interpreter/1972356

...

So the actual number of active profiles is, evidently, much lower.

[Edited at 2016-01-05 06:54 GMT]
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Peter Leeflang
Peter Leeflang  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:43
Member (2014)
French to English
+ ...
So TM-Town is not for 2nd tier translators then Mar 8, 2016

Kevin Dias wrote:

I think you hit on exactly what we are trying to do at TM-Town. We are trying to give the power back to the individual specialized translator. The freelance professional whose focus is on quality and domain knowledge.

TM-Town's goal is to help the professional specialized translator find more work in his/her field(s) and get introduced to the clients who care about 'quality-oriented LINGUIST-like translation'. Our goal is to help clients who need specialized translators find you directly, instead of having to go through 'giants making huge money on those who do the actual work'.

This is not to say that large translation agencies don't provide value, they certainly do...but not every company is a Honda, Facebook, Toyota, etc. that needs the coordination of hundreds of translators and proofreaders across many language pairs. I think there are many small and medium-size businesses that could benefit by easily being able to directly go to the specialized freelance translator.


Ok, so that sounds like TM-town is only for top tier translators who deliver the highest possible quality work, having the deepest insight in their subjects, and those of us who are second tier translators, with less depth of subject knowledge, and are making a living as professionals as well, should not bother to pay for and use TM-Town. We would likely just be filtered out and get no business.

Good to know.

[Edited at 2016-03-08 16:12 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-03-08 16:13 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-03-08 16:15 GMT]


 
Ward Whittaker
Ward Whittaker  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 06:43
Portuguese to English
I am not impressed in the least Mar 17, 2016

I signed up but the more I look at it, the less impressed I am.

Our individual TMs are the only things that differentiate us from other translators out there. I see them as my intellectual property. After 17 years in this industry, I can not see myself giving them away just for the hollow promise of work with no guarantees. I've worked too damn hard to create them and they pay for themselves with every job I do.

I work specifically in the technical, engineering area,
... See more
I signed up but the more I look at it, the less impressed I am.

Our individual TMs are the only things that differentiate us from other translators out there. I see them as my intellectual property. After 17 years in this industry, I can not see myself giving them away just for the hollow promise of work with no guarantees. I've worked too damn hard to create them and they pay for themselves with every job I do.

I work specifically in the technical, engineering area, including contracts and public tenders and my TMs and termGuides cover everything from government tenders for anti aircraft systems to hydroelectric systems and my clients would freak out if they knew these translations were in the public domain and don't kid yourself folks, TM-Town is for all intents and purposes, the public domain.

There is absolutely nothing to stop TM-Town and perhaps even Proz from opening a pseudo MT system in the future utilizing the fruits of my labor and offering it directly to end user clients.

Remember folks, once you hit the send button, they are out there forever and despite the promises that TM-Town are making that they will never leverage them, who is to say that this policy will not change in the future.

Nope, my TM's stay on my computer only. Giving them to anybody else like this is madness. I also think that translators who are willing to upload their TMs to a service like this are contravening their NDAs as well and I take my NDAs very seriously. So the answer from me is an unequivocal NO.

[Edited at 2016-03-17 18:02 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-03-17 18:03 GMT]
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Local time: 18:43
More misinformation... Mar 17, 2016

Ward Whittaker wrote:

Our individual TMs are the only things that differentiate us from other translators out there. I see them as my intellectual property. After 17 years in this industry, I can not see myself giving them away just for the hollow promise of work with no guarantees. I've worked too damn hard to create them and they pay for themselves with every job I do.

I work specifically in the technical, engineering area, including contracts and public tenders and my TMs and termGuides cover everything from government tenders for anti aircraft systems to hydroelectric systems and my clients would freak out if they knew these translations were in the public domain and don't kid yourself folks, TM-Town is for all intents and purposes, the public domain.

There is absolutely nothing to stop TM-Town and perhaps even Proz from opening a pseudo MT system in the future utilizing the fruits of my labor and offering it directly to end user clients.

Remember folks, once you hit the send button, they are out there forever and despite the promises that TM-Town are making that they will never leverage them, who is to say that this policy will not change in the future.

Nope, my TM's stay on my computer only. Giving them to anybody else like this is madness. I also think that translators who are willing to upload their TMs to a service like this are contravening their NDAs as well and I take my NDAs very seriously. So the answer from me is an unequivocal NO.


This is just FUD. Not only are you making accusations that we will violate our terms of service, but your argument is also completely contradicted by the fact that you do not have to load work to benefit from TM-Town.

TM-Town has a desktop application which will analyze your work offline and allow you to benefit from TM-Town's Nakōdo search engine without loading any TMs or aligned work to TM-Town.

If you are still not comfortable with that we make it very easy to do a
sample translation in your language pair and field of expertise.


 
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:43
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Off-topic Mar 17, 2016

Ward Whittaker wrote:
Our individual TMs are the only things that differentiate us from other translators out there. I see them as my intellectual property. After 17 years in this industry, I can not see myself giving them away just for the hollow promise of work with no guarantees.

Just a quick note to say that, in my opinion, TMs are not really that critical. If a customer of mine asked for a copy of my TM containing their translations for a bone fide reason, I would no doubt hand it over.

What customers hire us for is our expertise, and that exists independent of any TM. Our TMs do not convey our full expertise or capabilities; maybe only a sample of it. Furthermore, while our expertise keeps growing with time, the contents of our TMs is frozen and very much corresponds to our expertise in the past. I am sure we would all make plenty of changes in our TMs if we reread segments from several years ago, the same way we edit our segments constantly as we reuse them from the perspective of our current knowledge.


 
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