Pages in topic:   < [1 2]
Subtitling rates
Thread poster: dorthe pedersen
dorthe pedersen
dorthe pedersen  Identity Verified
Germany
English to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Good point Apr 25, 2018

Wojciech_ wrote:

Jocelin M wrote:


Some people here say that there are good companies that pay decently, even as much as 10$/€ per minute of video. In a bit more than three years of looking for new clients every day, I've never come across one of those good agencies. And when you ask for the name of those agencies, people suddenly go quiet so... I'm not even sure they exist, to be honest.

[Modifié le 2018-04-19 03:53 GMT]


So, my word of good advice: if someone offers you 4 dollars per minute, accept it and in the meantime try finding another provider that pays more. But don't be lured by the arguments that you should negotiate hard and not go below, say, 6 dollars.

[Edited at 2018-04-19 08:58 GMT]


You are probably both right. I recently came across another conversation on the same topic and when someone asked which companies they were working for, no one wanted to spill the beans.


Rita Amaral
 
Henriette Saffron (X)
Henriette Saffron (X)  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 16:35
English to Danish
+ ...
The good companies are out there Apr 26, 2018

dorthe pedersen wrote:

Wojciech_ wrote:

Jocelin M wrote:


Some people here say that there are good companies that pay decently, even as much as 10$/€ per minute of video. In a bit more than three years of looking for new clients every day, I've never come across one of those good agencies. And when you ask for the name of those agencies, people suddenly go quiet so... I'm not even sure they exist, to be honest.

[Modifié le 2018-04-19 03:53 GMT]


So, my word of good advice: if someone offers you 4 dollars per minute, accept it and in the meantime try finding another provider that pays more. But don't be lured by the arguments that you should negotiate hard and not go below, say, 6 dollars.

[Edited at 2018-04-19 08:58 GMT]


You are probably both right. I recently came across another conversation on the same topic and when someone asked which companies they were working for, no one wanted to spill the beans.


As a rule I and many other translators/subtitlers do not disclose clients’ names, and some of us have signed NDAs prohibiting us from doing so.

[Edited at 2018-04-26 00:58 GMT]


Rita Amaral
 
Magdalena Adamus
Magdalena Adamus
Poland
Local time: 16:35
English to Polish
Disclosing clients Apr 27, 2018

And also why would we share our clients list with totally random people on the Internet when we spent so much time collecting them...?

Paulo Fernandes
 
Jean Chao
Jean Chao  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:35
English to Chinese
+ ...
Documentary translation is 3-5x of my drama translation time Apr 27, 2018

Especially a subject requiring a lot of research and when talking heads ramble on and on (with no logic), spreading their thoughts over three to five or even more subtitle boxes.

I've tried my best to avoid this type of work, but unfortunately, it's inevitable sometimes. The biggest pain for me is going through all those preferential changes of an egotistically QA, trying to differentiate between typos or mistakes and his/her preferred way of expression without getting paid.
... See more
Especially a subject requiring a lot of research and when talking heads ramble on and on (with no logic), spreading their thoughts over three to five or even more subtitle boxes.

I've tried my best to avoid this type of work, but unfortunately, it's inevitable sometimes. The biggest pain for me is going through all those preferential changes of an egotistically QA, trying to differentiate between typos or mistakes and his/her preferred way of expression without getting paid.

I translate subtitles more for fun. Otherwise, subtitling translation is much less profitable than a regular text translation job.

subtitleinsider wrote:

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
The time it took me to do it varied significantly. One 90-min movie took me less than a day, though its dialogue load was absolutely normal. Another one, 130 minutes long, took me three entire days.

The fact that we charge per minute of playing time is a matter of using an average for convenience. It's the only way to enable the client to safely budget their project, and it disregards the translator's efficiency (which is of no concern to the client).

There are two main elements that go into how long the subtitle translation process takes: volume and difficulty. For example, drama content has an average of 10 titles per minute, documentary content 14, and comedy content 16. For documentary content additional time is required to do proper research, where for comedy content additional time is required to to translate humor. The two elements combined can make translating a documentary or comedy require double the amount of time a drama of similar length would take. (Often not taken into account: shorter programming has a higher overhead-per-minute ratio for non-translation activities like e-mail correspondence, billing, etc.)

I understand the need of clients to set budgets based on runtime rather than the hours spent per individual translator, but that rate structure ought to take genre into account.
Collapse


 
José Henrique Lamensdorf
José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 12:35
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
I thought specialties took care of that Apr 27, 2018

subtitleinsider wrote:

I understand the need of clients to set budgets based on runtime rather than the hours spent per individual translator, but that rate structure ought to take genre into account.


My specialty is corporate video, i.e. training, institutional, product launch, etc.
These clients are usually local subsidiaries of companies that know nothing about video. They get the original video, and nothing else, and need it subtitled for a domestic audience. They'll be showing it to employees, reps, resellers, prospects, customers, etc. Their corporate image is at stake, so they demand top quality and a finished product.

Usually that company's WHQ hires their ad/PR agency to do it, which on its turn hires a movie studio. Later, WHQ sends the video to all subsidiaries, for each one to get it dubbed or subtitled locally. No chance for a translator to gain access to the script, to a "clean" version without the overlaid text. In 99% of the cases, I have to work on the finished video. I used to author interactive DVDs too, before FHD/HD online video became the standard.

Of course, my rates for doing this is eye-popping, if compared to subtitling B-movies on pre-timed, transcribed templates.

However there should be a continuum between them, and I guess there are "specialists" in some film genres, who can demand higher rates, like the so popular legal, forensic, medical, and other specialized TV series. Likewise history, science, and other motif channels should have specialist translators in their areas.

Comedy requires an amateur comedy writer to transcreate jokes, and keep it funny. A sad ogre, no matter how specialized, wouldn't be able to do it.

So I guess each specialty should have a different rate range. Isn't it so?


hikarumm
 
Jocelin Meunier
Jocelin Meunier  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:35
English to French
+ ...
It' not about sharing Apr 30, 2018

Magdalena Adamus wrote:

And also why would we share our clients list with totally random people on the Internet when we spent so much time collecting them...?


It's merely about confirming they exist. When you read the forums, some people make it sound like there are clients and agencies paying 15€/min waiting at every corner, while in reality you never get to see them. It's a bit like if people were telling you that you should only mount unicorns because that's what true riders do while everyone else only know them as mythical creatures.


Rita Amaral
 
Sylvano
Sylvano
Local time: 16:35
English to French
Once more... May 1, 2018

Jocelin M wrote:

Magdalena Adamus wrote:

And also why would we share our clients list with totally random people on the Internet when we spent so much time collecting them...?


It's merely about confirming they exist. When you read the forums, some people make it sound like there are clients and agencies paying 15€/min waiting at every corner, while in reality you never get to see them. It's a bit like if people were telling you that you should only mount unicorns because that's what true riders do while everyone else only know them as mythical creatures.


Well, doubt about it if you want, but they do exist. Especially in France. Since you don't believe they exist, why keep on looking for them? Nobody here said it's easy to get work from them or it doesn't take time to establish a long-term collaboration with them (and make it last), all the more so when you have little experience (I've been working in AV translation for 18 years, and finding work has always been a struggle and still is, dude). In case you didn't get that yet, our field is all about networking, and networking takes time. (Decent) clients generally won't hire random people sending resumes out of the blue (the other type may hire you that way, because their top priority is to pay a low rate). The other thing is we're quite a bunch now working in AV translation, so there won't necessarily be enough (well paid) work for everyone and not everyone will have access to the best clients. What's surprising about that?


 
Jocelin Meunier
Jocelin Meunier  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:35
English to French
+ ...
It's not surprising at all May 1, 2018

Sylvano wrote:

Jocelin M wrote:

Magdalena Adamus wrote:

And also why would we share our clients list with totally random people on the Internet when we spent so much time collecting them...?


It's merely about confirming they exist. When you read the forums, some people make it sound like there are clients and agencies paying 15€/min waiting at every corner, while in reality you never get to see them. It's a bit like if people were telling you that you should only mount unicorns because that's what true riders do while everyone else only know them as mythical creatures.


Well, doubt about it if you want, but they do exist. Especially in France. Since you don't believe they exist, why keep on looking for them? Nobody here said it's easy to get work from them or it doesn't take time to establish a long-term collaboration with them (and make it last), all the more so when you have little experience (I've been working in AV translation for 18 years, and finding work has always been a struggle and still is, dude). In case you didn't get that yet, our field is all about networking, and networking takes time. (Decent) clients generally won't hire random people sending resumes out of the blue (the other type may hire you that way, because their top priority is to pay a low rate). The other thing is we're quite a bunch now working in AV translation, so there won't necessarily be enough (well paid) work for everyone and not everyone will have access to the best clients. What's surprising about that?


And that's the whole point, in the end. That's why it infuriating when some subtitlers say that you shouldn't go below this or that rate when it is, in fact, not quite possible the vast majority of the time, since clients who pay well are so rare. Otherwise, we'd never find any work to do. Other than that, I totally agree with everything you said, I'm not experienced enough yet to say I know more.


Rita Amaral
 
Georgie Scott
Georgie Scott  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:35
French to English
+ ...
Since it's not about sharing May 2, 2018

Jocelin M wrote:

Magdalena Adamus wrote:

And also why would we share our clients list with totally random people on the Internet when we spent so much time collecting them...?


It's merely about confirming they exist. When you read the forums, some people make it sound like there are clients and agencies paying 15€/min waiting at every corner, while in reality you never get to see them. It's a bit like if people were telling you that you should only mount unicorns because that's what true riders do while everyone else only know them as mythical creatures.


Good clients do exist. Unicorns don't.

The idea that your peers and subtitling assocations are purposefully spreading false rumours of good rates to quash the competition is an unfounded conspiracy theory.

FYI, no-one said good clients were waiting at every corner. They said finding them requires good marketing skills and patience. And that working for low rates/fansubbing is what has made these good clients so hard to find. Being able to recognize nuance is quite an important skill for a translator.


Rita Amaral
 
Wojciech_ (X)
Wojciech_ (X)
Poland
Local time: 16:35
English to Polish
+ ...
OK May 2, 2018

OK, I stand corrected. Apparently, according to what you're writing here, in French-English pair and several other Western European languages you can find companies offering you up to €15 ppm. If there's a chance to negotiate such a rate, good for you and I hope you will find such a company.
As for my language pair, finding anything above €5-6 ppm is simply impossible and I'm quite positive there are no such options, perhaps a one-time job, but that's it. This, unfortunately, applies t
... See more
OK, I stand corrected. Apparently, according to what you're writing here, in French-English pair and several other Western European languages you can find companies offering you up to €15 ppm. If there's a chance to negotiate such a rate, good for you and I hope you will find such a company.
As for my language pair, finding anything above €5-6 ppm is simply impossible and I'm quite positive there are no such options, perhaps a one-time job, but that's it. This, unfortunately, applies to many other languages. In Poland if you do voice-over scripts, you can't count on getting more than €15-17 per 10 mins of the programme, so, as you can see, everyting depends on the market.
Collapse


Rita Amaral
 
Lian Pang
Lian Pang  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 16:35
Member (2018)
English to Chinese
+ ...
4 dollars is too low, but if you want to gain experience.. May 2, 2018

as I stated in my title, 4 dollars is waaaaay too low. But I've done jobs for less money(2 dollars) when I was just starting out. Talk about painful past ....

I have never had successful experience in negotiating prices with agencies. Most of them kinda have that take-it-or-leave-it attitude. So if I find it unacceptable, I will simply decline.

But hey, if at the moment you can't land on anything better
... See more
as I stated in my title, 4 dollars is waaaaay too low. But I've done jobs for less money(2 dollars) when I was just starting out. Talk about painful past ....

I have never had successful experience in negotiating prices with agencies. Most of them kinda have that take-it-or-leave-it attitude. So if I find it unacceptable, I will simply decline.

But hey, if at the moment you can't land on anything better and you need something to perk up your resume a little, maybe consider taking the job ?
Collapse


 
José Henrique Lamensdorf
José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 12:35
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
Subtitling rates are meaningless if unattached to a workflow May 2, 2018

Yesterday I was entering my details on a translation agency's database online form.
On the rates page there was a subtitling option, requesting language pair(s), rate, and the measurement unit (viz. that rate per word, char, minute, hour, etc.). It didn't mention whether time units referred to labor time or video duration.

My immediate conclusion was that these folks knew nothing about subtitling.
The entire subtitling process is linear - i.e. very few operations can be
... See more
Yesterday I was entering my details on a translation agency's database online form.
On the rates page there was a subtitling option, requesting language pair(s), rate, and the measurement unit (viz. that rate per word, char, minute, hour, etc.). It didn't mention whether time units referred to labor time or video duration.

My immediate conclusion was that these folks knew nothing about subtitling.
The entire subtitling process is linear - i.e. very few operations can be merged together - and involves several steps, each one having a price tag attached to it. Also, it should consider where that translator/subtitler's work starts (what is provided), and where it ends (his/her final deliverable - regardless of what will have to be done afterwards.

Let's check a few workflows...


Workflow A - my most frequent one as I specialize in corporate video
What is provided: the original video, in ~3% of cases the script too
What are the deliverables: the finished, subtitled video, in the required size/format
  • downloading video
  • converting an often huge video file
  • translation
  • time-spotting
  • checking
  • lifting (moving some subtitles away from overlapping with onscreen text)
  • burning
  • converting video, if necessary
  • uploading


Workflow B - which I used for ONE client, a subtitling studio in the USA, while subtitling dozens of feature films
What is provided: the original downgraded (smaller, w/ overlaid logo = faster download) video, a 'template' (their pre-timed full transcript broken into subtitles in the source text) in a *.doc file), and their 'player' software, which can show the results onscreen.
What are the deliverables: the translated 'template' (a *.doc file)
  • marking everything that is NOT subtitle TEXT (viz. in/out times, comments, etc.) as "untranslatable" to protect it for use with WFC (not so much as a CAT tool, but to efficiently jump from one sub to the next)
  • translating while watching the outcome in real time on their player
  • checking, noting & communicating timing and/or transcription slips (which will be relayed to fellow translators working into other languages)
  • e-mailing the translated *.doc file


Workflow C - which I use for a small bunch of small local video producers
What is provided: the video itself, often in FHD; a (tran)script in 30% of the cases
What are the deliverables: the subtitles text in a *.doc file (no timing) - AFAIK they'll be manually placing them one by one, using FinalCut!
  • translating, using ExpressScribe * MS Word
  • e-mailing the translated *.doc file


Workflow D - for (usually corporate) videos hosted on YouTube, Vimeo etc.
What is provided: the video URL
What are the deliverables: a SRT file
  • downloading the video from the host
  • translating from audio
  • time-spotting
  • checking
  • e-mailing the SRT file


This list is endless, and I have refrained from mentioning any online subtitling platform here.

So a translator stating ONE 'subtitling rate' is meaningless, right?
Collapse


hikarumm
Hidayah Zulkipli
 
Michel Virasolvy
Michel Virasolvy  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:35
English to French
+ ...
A Per Word rate, anyone? May 2, 2018

Actually, a subtitler stating a single rate usually implies performance of a workflow starting with the video download and finishing with the delivery of a subtitle file (usually with SRT format). The most common misunderstanding I noticed from speaking with colleagues was the time-spotting step which can sometimes be part of an entirely separate quote. Also, more often than not the encoding of the video is not even part of the subtitling process as the PM aims at getting all the language SRT fi... See more
Actually, a subtitler stating a single rate usually implies performance of a workflow starting with the video download and finishing with the delivery of a subtitle file (usually with SRT format). The most common misunderstanding I noticed from speaking with colleagues was the time-spotting step which can sometimes be part of an entirely separate quote. Also, more often than not the encoding of the video is not even part of the subtitling process as the PM aims at getting all the language SRT files they need prior to the final simulation.

I mainly process e-learning videos for IT devs and B2B electronic-related marketing materials, and one thing you can't miss in these videos is how English word efficiency is used to just shove as many explanations as you can in a very short amount of time. It became so obvious that sometimes the speaker was cut mid-speech to start the next sentence. Result is, a per minute rate can only get you so far. At the moment I decided to merely use a per source word rate to accurately establish my quotes and I already know I'm not the only one who made that switch around the end of 2017. If you're not sure about what "per min" rate you should take/accept, don't forget who's calling the shots. As José mentioned, ‘the bottom rate in subtitling is zero’, so you'd better start assessing how much you'll need to properly run your company (assets, marketing, insurances, etc.) and establish your tariff grid on your own prior to check out what the competition does.

On another note, recently I couldn't help but notice with a few colleagues that subtitling seems to display a massive "investment cycle" of sorts: you'll be overbooked with super cool projects for a couple of months then completely out of work for another few months before being again overbooked with projects. To be honest, I'm not sure that's a good point but I'd appreciate getting some feedback about that "tidal work".
Collapse


 
Jocelin Meunier
Jocelin Meunier  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:35
English to French
+ ...
Kinda noticed that as well May 3, 2018

Michel Virasolvy wrote:
On another note, recently I couldn't help but notice with a few colleagues that subtitling seems to display a massive "investment cycle" of sorts: you'll be overbooked with super cool projects for a couple of months then completely out of work for another few months before being again overbooked with projects. To be honest, I'm not sure that's a good point but I'd appreciate getting some feedback about that "tidal work".


It would seem that, lately, I easily go from overbook for two months then nothing comes in the next two months. Maybe there will be one short video or two to translate in that time, but not much.


 
Olga Shabliy
Olga Shabliy
United States
Local time: 10:35
English to Russian
+ ...
I had an offer May 3, 2018

I had an offer $3 per minute for subtitling. It is not a price for EN-UKR translation. I am sure that it is twice less than should be.

 
Pages in topic:   < [1 2]


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Subtitling rates







Anycount & Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000

Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.

More info »
Protemos translation business management system
Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!

The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.

More info »