| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Discussion on proz.com has become severely hampered by a number of rules Thread poster: Richard Creech
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Richard Creech 
United States
Local time: 09:53
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Shift in Focus | Jul 28, 2006 |
Enrique wrote:
"Note that not all postings in these topic areas will be permitted. Postings that are in violation of ProZ.com policies or rules will not be vetted, and if already public, will be removed whenever encountered by moderators or site staff, even if they fall within ProZ.com's scope. "
Enrique
It appears that you are now conceding that the matter was relevant, but that it should be disallowed nonetheless, presumably because of the vague and undefined (and ultimately unworkable) rule against "political" matters. Be that as it may, you should expect to be challenged when exercising your discretion so as to forestall discussion which is of considerable interest to the Arabic translation community in the United States.
| | | | Susana Galilea
United States
Local time: 08:53
English to Spanish
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| thank you for your eloquence | Jul 28, 2006 |
Richard Creech wrote:
I am grateful to those whose work makes this site possible, and am glad that there is a commitment to making this site the best that it can be. However, I feel that it is perfectly valid for the members of this site to discuss the extent to which the site is achieving its goal and whether the rules, or their application by the moderators, are truly in the best interest of the community. If we cannot do this, that is very sad indeed.
Richard, I am not adding anything because you are covering all the bases so eloquently, but I am entirely with you on this topic.
Regards,
Susana
| | | | B D Finch
France
Local time: 15:53
French to English
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| The business of translation is specifically a permitted topic for discussion | Jul 28, 2006 |
I agree with Richard because the question of whether a gay translator can work for the US Military seems to me to be absolutely about the **business of translation**.
Now, whether or not I would advocate a translator, gay or otherwise, **should** work for the US military would fall foul of the political comment rule. However, defence of the principle of equality of opportunity in the translation profession seems to be something that should definitely be allowed in ProZ.clom forum... See more I agree with Richard because the question of whether a gay translator can work for the US Military seems to me to be absolutely about the **business of translation**.
Now, whether or not I would advocate a translator, gay or otherwise, **should** work for the US military would fall foul of the political comment rule. However, defence of the principle of equality of opportunity in the translation profession seems to be something that should definitely be allowed in ProZ.clom forums.
Would it be outlawed for us to discuss the situation if a black or woman translator were refused work on the grounds of their ethnicity or sex? Would it not be professionally useful for a gay, black or woman translator to be aware of such workplace discrimination, its extent and where it was occurring? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dyran Altenburg (X)
United States
Local time: 09:53
English to Spanish
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| This is getting interesting | Jul 28, 2006 |
Enrique wrote:
To present ProZ.com's moderators as a group of censors, or as people who act in accordance with theit own agendas on rules enforcement in not only wrong, but also unfair.
So if not the moderators, who exactly decides which OT's are ok and which are not? Based on what, since the rules seem to specifically forbid any and all OT's?
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Dyran
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| Clearly out of context | Jul 28, 2006 |
Richard Creech wrote: Enrique wrote:
"Note that not all postings in these topic areas will be permitted. Postings that are in violation of ProZ.com policies or rules will not be vetted, and if already public, will be removed whenever encountered by moderators or site staff, even if they fall within ProZ.com's scope. "
Enrique It appears that you are now conceding that the matter was relevant, but that it should be disallowed nonetheless, presumably because of the vague and undefined (and ultimately unworkable) rule against "political" matters. Be that as it may, you should expect to be challenged when exercising your discretion so as to forestall discussion which is of considerable interest to the Arabic translation community in the United States.
Please visit my posting again and read it completely. You may notice that I include this paragraph in response to your comment
Richard Creech wrote:
The relevant rule currently states:
"Valid topics for discussion include language and language services (translation, interpreting, localization, subtitling, etc.), as well as business and technical issues of interest specifically to language professionals in their work. Postings which are not related to language or translation, or the business of language or translation, are not allowed. Postings which are political, religious, or otherwise controversial in nature, or that may be considered offensive by other users, will be removed without regard to the views expressed. [ For details, see the site's Definition of Scope ]"
There is a lacuna in this rule, as it does not squarely address the situation in which a topic satisfies the criteria of the first sentence (i.e. it is about "language and language services) but also falls into the ambit of the second sentence (e.g. it is "political, religious, or otherwise controversial," etc.). A matter can be both.
Now could you please explain how answering your concern about a rule could mean that I may be "conceding that the matter was relevant, but that it should be disallowed nonetheless, presumably because of the vague and undefined (and ultimately unworkable) rule against "political" matters."?
Enrique
| | | | Richard Creech
United States
Local time: 09:53
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Explanation to Enrique | Jul 28, 2006 |
I apologize if I erred in reading a concession in your posting. I drew this conclusion based on your title "on topic and controversial," which I took as describing my topic as "on," followed by your reference to the fact that not all relevant topics will be permitted.
I think it would be useful for you to address some of the other issues that have been raised about your view of relevance (e.g. discrimination against female and minority translators, the use of paypal, etc.)
| | | | | ProZ.com is the bassfan.com of translation. | Jul 28, 2006 |
The philisophical discussion "What is linguistic? What is political?" that comes up here from time to time is interesting, but I am not optimistic that we are going to arrive at a definitive answer.
On the other hand, the argument that the policy of limiting the site's scope to translation is unworkable is demonstrably false. The truth is that we usually do not come across issues that are both within our scope and political.
Your recent issue, Richard, was simply not wi... See more The philisophical discussion "What is linguistic? What is political?" that comes up here from time to time is interesting, but I am not optimistic that we are going to arrive at a definitive answer.
On the other hand, the argument that the policy of limiting the site's scope to translation is unworkable is demonstrably false. The truth is that we usually do not come across issues that are both within our scope and political.
Your recent issue, Richard, was simply not within our scope. Frankly, this is not a difficult thing to understand. When you make a philosophical argument out of it, you are really grasping at straws.
To illustrate my point about the demonstrable feasibility of a site with limited scope, please see http://www.bassfan.com This site has limited its scope to bass fishing, and they don't discuss sexual orientation and its impact on hiring practices in the military.
Please think of us as the bassfan.com of translation.
With that, and in the absence of any concrete proposal in this thread for changing ProZ.com's policy on limited scope, I am locking this thread. Thanks in advance for your understanding. ▲ Collapse
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