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See more/Collapse now being applied to forum posts
Thread poster: Alison MacG

Alison MacG  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:32
German to English
+ ...
Jun 4

Could site staff perhaps explain the thinking behind this new feature (recent example below).

https://www.proz.com/forum/scams/335024-more_fishing_for_diplomas.html

I find the extra clicking required annoying, particularly if it reveals, say, only one extra line. If this is a permanent feature, would it be possible to add an Expand all... See more
Could site staff perhaps explain the thinking behind this new feature (recent example below).

https://www.proz.com/forum/scams/335024-more_fishing_for_diplomas.html

I find the extra clicking required annoying, particularly if it reveals, say, only one extra line. If this is a permanent feature, would it be possible to add an Expand all or See all button?

What do others think?
Collapse


Erik Freitag
Kevin Fulton
Yolanda Broad
Silke Walter
Christel Zipfel
Wilsonn Perez Reyes
Philip Lees
 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
Danish to English
+ ...
Annoying Jun 4

That is definitely annoying and another case of fixing what ain't broken.

It's not because Facebook does something that Proz has to ape it. Why are site staff wasting their time on such nonsense when they don't have the time to fix bugs reported months and years ago?

How do we disable this obstructive 'feechur'?


Erik Freitag
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Kevin Fulton
Robert Forstag
Jan Truper
Michele Fauble
Christel Zipfel
 

Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:32
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Agree Jun 4

I sincerely don't want to sound unwelcoming or unfriendly, but I agree with Alison and Thomas. I find this function unnecessary and very annoying. What I find even more annoying is that manpower goes into something like this at the expense of so many things the community at large has been asking for for years.

Kevin Fulton
Thomas T. Frost
Robert Forstag
Silke Walter
Michele Fauble
Jessica Noyes
Wilsonn Perez Reyes
 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 00:32
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
No, remove it! Jun 4

Alison MacG wrote:
I find the extra clicking required annoying, particularly if it reveals, say, only one extra line.


The feature assumes that the most important part of a post is near the top. The feature assumes readers read posts from top to bottom (or that they prefer to). The feature requires me to move my mouse horizontally (away from the vertical scroll bar) in order to see the entire post. The feature will teach users to quote as little as possible, or worse: not quote at all, lest one's post gets the dreaded "see more" attached to it.

I can see that such a feature may be useful if you're using a mobile phone to browse the forums, but I suspect most translators still use desktop/laptop computers for their work.

A "see more" is useful on Facebook, because Facebook is made up of a stream of posts that gets added to near the top. Facebook does not have tabs or separate forums or even separate pages for separate threads, so being able to squeeze as much content into a small space makes sense for Facebook. On the ProZ.com forums, we suffer none of these problems, so there's no need to implement the "see more" "solution" for it.


Kevin Fulton
Bernhard Sulzer
Michele Fauble
Jessica Noyes
Wilsonn Perez Reyes
Philip Lees
Vera Schoen
 

Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
Hong Kong
Local time: 06:32
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Length Jun 5

Apparently, the longer your post is, the less likely it's going to be collapsed.

 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 00:32
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Lincoln Jun 5

Lincoln Hui wrote:
Apparently, the longer your post is, the less likely it's going to be collapsed.


Well, I just posted a very long post in the OmegaT subforum, and it got collapsed. But my post above is no longer being collapsed. I once thought the number of likes have to do with it, but see here. Or maybe the forum software detects how many people click "see more" (which it can, since it uses JavaScript) and then automatically uncollapses it after a certain threshold.

I'm currently experimenting with a user CSS in Otter Browser. In Otter Browser, visit the web site, then press F12 (which opens site preferences), and select the user.css file and specify the base URL (e.g. www.proz.com). Press F5 to refresh. It's touch and go at the moment.


[Edited at 2019-06-05 10:25 GMT]


 

Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 00:32
Member
English to French
+ ...
Posts which start with a quoted text Jun 5

Samuel Murray wrote:

[The feature will teach users to quote as little as possible, or worse: not quote at all, lest one's post gets the dreaded "see more" attached to it.



On the contrary, it appears that posts which start with a quoted text escape the See more/Collapse rule.


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 00:32
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Jean Jun 5

Jean Dimitriadis wrote:
It appears that posts which start with a quoted text escape the See more/Collapse rule.


Hey, you may be right. What a fantastic bug!


Kay-Viktor Stegemann
 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
Danish to English
+ ...
Support ticket Jun 5

Since site staff are not responding to the complaints here, I have opened a support ticket.

 

Henry Dotterer
Local time: 18:32
SITE FOUNDER
Going to evaluate for a bit Jun 5

Hi all. The feature is indeed modeled after Facebook. One goal is to improve the mobile experience. Based on thie feedback here, we will prepare an "expand all" option. Beyond that we are going to evaluate this feature in practice before deciding whether or not to keep it. We know that users adapt to features such as this, and it will be interesting to see how posting practices may shift.

 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
Danish to English
+ ...
I don't adapt to collapse as default Jun 5

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Hi all. The feature is indeed modeled after Facebook. One goal is to improve the mobile experience. Based on thie feedback here, we will prepare an "expand all" option. Beyond that we are going to evaluate this feature in practice before deciding whether or not to keep it. We know that users adapt to features such as this, and it will be interesting to see how posting practices may shift.


Hi Henry, it's a real shame when software feature changes 'improve the mobile experience' and, as a result, make the PC experience worse. Many modern UIs suffer from this and are making it increasingly difficult and annoying to use them on a PC, which is what I use >98% of the time. I have a high-resolution 17" screen, and then UI designers want me to see nothing more on it than what can be squeezed onto a mobile screen. The whole concept of ruining the PC experience to suit mobile devices is outrageous. Microsoft learnt the hard way with Windows 8 that the concept was a fiasco, yet many keep repeating Microsoft's failures.

You already have a mobile app for mobiles (although I have no idea what it does, as I have no need for it). Isn't that enough for mobile users?

If you include an 'expand all' option, please make it stick so we don't have to click on it every single time.

I and other users adapt to changes that make things better, but collapse as default is not one of them. It is purely and simply annoying and ruins the overview. Google Forums also does it, and I absolutely hate it and have hated it for years.

The problem is when you think you have a bright UI idea and then impose it on everybody without giving people a choice. That's what options are for.

Sorry not to be more 'positive', as I know you prefer forum posts to be, but I don't see anything positive in making the UI worse.


Alison MacG
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Erik Freitag
Kay Denney
Teresa Borges
Christel Zipfel
Michele Fauble
 

Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 00:32
Member (2006)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Disadvantages of too many features Jun 5

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Hi all. The feature is indeed modeled after Facebook. One goal is to improve the mobile experience. Based on thie feedback here, we will prepare an "expand all" option. Beyond that we are going to evaluate this feature in practice before deciding whether or not to keep it. We know that users adapt to features such as this, and it will be interesting to see how posting practices may shift.


It is not only annoying but with this feature you kick off your other feature: Agrees.
This way Agrees will lose their popularity or their functions.


Pedro Carlos de Oliveira dos Santos
 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
Danish to English
+ ...
PS – the bugs Jun 5

PS: you did not address the matter concerning unsolved bugs, Henry.

Right now I have four pending bug reports created between 30 October 2017 and 30 November 2018.

Other users have also reported that they have old, pending bug reports.

Why does it not matter to make the experience better by fixing the bugs reported when you have the time to make changes like the unwanted collapse function that do not address any problem?

It actually takes time
... See more
PS: you did not address the matter concerning unsolved bugs, Henry.

Right now I have four pending bug reports created between 30 October 2017 and 30 November 2018.

Other users have also reported that they have old, pending bug reports.

Why does it not matter to make the experience better by fixing the bugs reported when you have the time to make changes like the unwanted collapse function that do not address any problem?

It actually takes time to report and document bugs – only for many of them to be ignored. Those who report bugs also work in the interest of making the experience better for other users, not just themselves.

Your priorities in this regard make no sense, and it is not fair to those who take the time to point out bugs simply to ignore them.
Collapse


Kay Denney
Christel Zipfel
Wilsonn Perez Reyes
Philip Lees
 

Alison MacG  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:32
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@ Henry Jun 5

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Hi all. The feature is indeed modeled after Facebook. One goal is to improve the mobile experience. Based on thie feedback here, we will prepare an "expand all" option. Beyond that we are going to evaluate this feature in practice before deciding whether or not to keep it. We know that users adapt to features such as this, and it will be interesting to see how posting practices may shift.


Thanks for responding here.

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Based on thie feedback here, we will prepare an "expand all" option.


Thanks in particular for this. An "expand all" option would be much appreciated.

Henry Dotterer wrote:

Beyond that we are going to evaluate this feature in practice before deciding whether or not to keep it.


As you evaluate this feature, please do look closely at some of the things that are happening, e.g. the See more cutting off only the final word of a post or being introduced mid-word, and ask yourself if that really is the experience you want for your members.

Henry Dotterer wrote:

We know that users adapt to features such as this, and it will be interesting to see how posting practices may shift.


Posters - possibly (hopefully) more posts will start with a quote
People viewing and reading the forums - I suspect a reduction in numbers due to a perceived negative experience


Thomas T. Frost
 
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