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Locked threads disappear from the "Recent Translation forum posts" page
Thread poster: Jean Dimitriadis

Elizabeth Tamblin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:05
Member (2012)
French to English
Yes, it's a question Apr 17

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

Elizabeth Tamblin wrote:

Why would you be a member of a site that you don't trust?


... that's a question, not a thought...

As for me, I've been a user of this site for a long while, contributed to kudoz and fora, received feedback from clients, participated in events, became "certified pro", won a translation contest, etc.

And at the very beginning I saw nothing wrong with anything, but in time a host of (more or less) little things I didn't agree with or found unfair started to pile up, so, fast-forward and now I'm left with a profile I invested a lot of time and effort in, a service that in the end does provide exposure on the Internet, and, on the other hand, a heap of what I deem very questionable choices, decisions and behaviors from the site owner(s) and staff. What's the alternative? Leave, and lose everything; STFU, as to not disturb the driver (and like minded individuals); voice my dissent, even if probably fruitlessly, or?


It's interesting to read your concerns.


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:05
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Moderation in moderation Apr 18

Back to the original topic.
I think several points of view were brought up, here is what I think of them.
1. Jared wrote:
Locked threads tend to be those where participants were unable to keep things in line with site rules.

Yes, I think thread locking is typically triggered by the flames reaching too high. However, I would say, if posts are violating site rules, they should be (and usually are) removed anyway, so whatever is remaining in the thread, is justified to be there, for one reason or another.
They also tend to be the least helpful.

Well, I think we are all adults here and we can decide for ourselves what is helpful and in what way. Comments made, issues brought up, opinions expressed by people can be helpful in many ways, aside from the direct content that is being discussed. Just by reading forums, I myself have learned a great deal about how certain people think and approach problems, which helped me to form my own views and choices for my own actions. And that includes discussions both with a positive and a negative tone. I don't think any one person (let it be site staff or moderator or a user) can decide what is useful for everyone. Since we have the Agree button, that serves sort of an indicator, people who take the time to read the comment and click on Agree usually appreciate the comment made, which means they view it as useful. So if anything, that may be considered some sort of an indicator, but not really.

Since the main purpose of the forums is for requesting and providing help

Actually, I am not sure I agree with that, and I don't remember this being stated anywhere. (I might be wrong.) AFAIK, KudoZ is the area of the site that is specifically designated for providing help. It is true, that discussions tend to focus on practical questions related to work (after all, it is a professional site), but there are other discussions as well, that are not necessarily focusing on asking and providing help. So, I would not think this is a fair criteria to judge the merit of discussions.

2. DZiW wrote:
is there 'Closed threads' category to check, say, not to re-post the same or similar topics?

Excellent question. There is no such category, and there is no way to find these either. Even the Advanced Search function does not provide an option to search for locked threads. I understand that it may be viewed as creepy if someone would purposely look for locked threads (make some popcorn and read the flamewars), but as DZiW says, it may actually be useful to see if a topic (that one might consider to post but suspects it might be controversial) has already been discussed and (God forbid!) triggered a thread lock. I (sort of) understand if site management would like to avoid more people seeing these "problematic" threads, but again, I have to refer back to my reasoning above, that is: if posts that are in violation were removed, and the thread is locked (meaning there is no way to throw more oil on the fire), there is nothing to worry about, except perhaps someone restarting the topic, but that is, again, prohibited by the site rules, so can be stopped right away. So, I would say there is no reason not to allow a search option for locked threads.

3. Mirko wrote:
But the "most recent posts" section on the forum page (this https://www.proz.com/forum/categories/recent-recent.html ) clearly ISN'T the home page, and as the name suggests, it should just show the "most recent posts"...

I fully agree with this. "Most recent posts" should mean just that, no less, no more. This is a basic function that is offered and expected these days on any and all platforms where discussions can take place. Sometimes there is a "Featured" section as well, including another set of selected topics, not necessarily the latest, and that is fine (editorial control is OK there). The two categories serve different purposes.
I fully support and request that ProZ management review their current procedures and not restrict the "recent" filter any further. It is especially important when there is no other way to find the most recently updated threads, as the Forum search does not have that option. I tried, and even though there is an option to select "Within one week", nothing will come up if the Keywords or Poster fields are empty. I even tried putting in a keyword like "that" (likely to be in many posts), and nothing came up. Perhaps there is a minimum character limit, or something. It doesn't matter now, the point is that the only way to see the most recent threads is to use the "Most Recent Posts" button/link on the forum page, so I think it is fair to expect that it would function according to its name. Use a separate flag in the database to mark "Featured" posts that will go on the Home Page, but do not use that flag to restrict display on the Most recent list. It is not logical and not fair. (Alternatively, allow for searching for forum posts with empty text fields in the search criteria, where all posts that match the other criteria would be listed - that way we could at least see the posts from the past week in reverse chronological order.)

Sorry for the long post...
Katalin

[Edited at 2019-04-18 18:43 GMT]


Mirko Mainardi
Erik Freitag
Jan Truper
Robert Forstag
ahartje
Kay Denney
writeaway
 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:05
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Another example of why keeping locked threads in the most recent list is important Apr 27

Today, another thread was locked, and as a "side effect", the thread was removed from the list of "Most recent posts". The last post in that thread included important info from Henry in response to questions raised and discussed in the thread. I bet many people who followed that thread (even without contributing) would have wanted to read that post, and *I think* Henry also wanted his post to be read by as many people as possible. (Although this is only my speculation, and that is technically ag... See more
Today, another thread was locked, and as a "side effect", the thread was removed from the list of "Most recent posts". The last post in that thread included important info from Henry in response to questions raised and discussed in the thread. I bet many people who followed that thread (even without contributing) would have wanted to read that post, and *I think* Henry also wanted his post to be read by as many people as possible. (Although this is only my speculation, and that is technically against forum rules.)
So, I think this is another example of why keeping locked threads in the most recent list is important.
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Michele Fauble
Helen Shiner
Jan Truper
Natasha Ziada
Kay Denney
writeaway
Yvonne Gallagher
 

Jan Truper  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:05
English to German
+ ...
... Apr 28

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

Today, another thread was locked, and as a "side effect", the thread was removed from the list of "Most recent posts".


Best be quiet, or this thread will be silenced, too...


Mirko Mainardi
 

Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:05
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Another "side effect" of locked threads Apr 28

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

Today, another thread was locked, and as a "side effect", the thread was removed from the list of "Most recent posts". The last post in that thread included important info from Henry in response to questions raised and discussed in the thread. I bet many people who followed that thread (even without contributing) would have wanted to read that post, and *I think* Henry also wanted his post to be read by as many people as possible. (Although this is only my speculation, and that is technically against forum rules.)
So, I think this is another example of why keeping locked threads in the most recent list is important.


The content in the announcement that a thread has been locked always gets to stand as the last word on the subject - no matter how dubious it might be.


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:05
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Soooo... what are you saying? Apr 28

Robert Forstag wrote:

The content in the announcement that a thread has been locked always gets to stand as the last word on the subject - no matter how dubious it might be.


So, from this aspect, are you saying that
A: it is good that the thread automatically gets removed from the Most recent posts list, or
B: it is not good that the thread automatically gets removed from the Most recent posts list?


 

Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:05
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Um, let’s see... Apr 28

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

Robert Forstag wrote:

The content in the announcement that a thread has been locked always gets to stand as the last word on the subject - no matter how dubious it might be.


So, from this aspect, are you saying that
A: it is good that the thread automatically gets removed from the Most recent posts list, or
B: it is not good that the thread automatically gets removed from the Most recent posts list?


B

This way, contributors and lurkers alike would have a chance to ponder the merits of such closing comments....

[Edited at 2019-04-29 02:43 GMT]


 

Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:05
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Postscript Apr 28

Incidentally, within an hour of my previous post, I noticed that this thread too had disappeared from the list of “Recent Posts” on my home page.

[Edited at 2019-04-28 23:16 GMT]


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:05
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
@Robert- Not everything is lost (yet) Apr 29

Robert Forstag wrote:

Incidentally, within an hour of my previous post, I noticed that this thread too had disappeared from the list of “Recent Posts” on my home page.

[Edited at 2019-04-28 23:16 GMT]


Ha-ha, I like your sense of humor.
That said, the forum topic list on the “Home page” is not the same as the “Most recent posts” list. Try it, you will see.
I have no problem with “editorial control” over “featured content” on the home page, as long as the “Most recent posts” list stays as its name says, a list of the threads with the most recent posts, regardless of their content and/or status.


Jan Truper
Mirko Mainardi
 

Jan Truper  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:05
English to German
+ ...
another disappearance? Apr 29

I just noticed that a thread called "Offer of the day (low rates)" from the category "Money matters" does not show up in my "Recent Translation forum posts" anymore.

Why is that?


Mirko Mainardi
 

Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 16:05
Member
English to Italian
Chalk another one up to the MIA threads... Apr 29

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

Robert Forstag wrote:

Incidentally, within an hour of my previous post, I noticed that this thread too had disappeared from the list of “Recent Posts” on my home page.

[Edited at 2019-04-28 23:16 GMT]


Ha-ha, I like your sense of humor.
That said, the forum topic list on the “Home page” is not the same as the “Most recent posts” list. Try it, you will see.
I have no problem with “editorial control” over “featured content” on the home page, as long as the “Most recent posts” list stays as its name says, a list of the threads with the most recent posts, regardless of their content and/or status.


Indeed. However, in the past few weeks I've noticed an alarming number of threads (locked or not) being "retired" from the "Most recent posts" section, the last one a mere few minutes ago, right after someone posted a new reply (and with the thread name modified by "someone" in the process...): https://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/334364.html

So, it seems they don't really care about logic, rules, freedom of speech or whatever...


Jan Truper
 

Jan Truper  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:05
English to German
+ ...
Sad Apr 29

...and now the thread about disappearances has disappeared.

I find this sad and appalling.


Robert Forstag
 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:05
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Yep Apr 29

Jan Truper wrote:

...and now the thread about disappearances has disappeared.

I find this sad and appalling.

Yes, it is pathetic.


Robert Forstag
 

Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:05
Member
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
But why??? Apr 29

Why hide Mirko's thread? Or this one?

I guess this is just another round of the "heavy-handed community-building stuff" I mentioned in a recent thread.

Just another day at ProZ.com…

Next, I'm afraid users will start getting weeded out. Mark my words.

Or System Of A Down's:

Conversion, software version 7.0
Looking at life through the eyes of a tired hub
Eating seeds as a pastime activity
The toxicity of our ci
... See more
Why hide Mirko's thread? Or this one?

I guess this is just another round of the "heavy-handed community-building stuff" I mentioned in a recent thread.

Just another day at ProZ.com…

Next, I'm afraid users will start getting weeded out. Mark my words.

Or System Of A Down's:

Conversion, software version 7.0
Looking at life through the eyes of a tired hub
Eating seeds as a pastime activity
The toxicity of our city, our city

You, what do you own the world?
How do you own disorder, disorder
Now somewhere between the sacred silence
Sacred silence and sleep
Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
Disorder, disorder, disorder

More wood for the fires, loud neighbors
Flashlight reveries caught in the headlights of a truck
Eating seeds as a pastime activity
The toxicity of our city, of our city



[Edited at 2019-04-29 20:45 GMT]
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Jan Truper
 

Jared Tabor
Local time: 12:05
SITE STAFF
Site staff exercise editorial control over what gets featured Apr 29

Hi all,

It is pretty simple. Site staff exercise editorial control over threads that appear on the home page (connected with the list of recent topics). Here is an FAQ I mentioned the other day on the subject: https://www.proz.com/faq/3094#3094

Site staff and moderators also edit the titles of forum threads when needed, in order to make sure they are descriptive of the content
... See more
Hi all,

It is pretty simple. Site staff exercise editorial control over threads that appear on the home page (connected with the list of recent topics). Here is an FAQ I mentioned the other day on the subject: https://www.proz.com/faq/3094#3094

Site staff and moderators also edit the titles of forum threads when needed, in order to make sure they are descriptive of the content of the thread as possible.

In addition, when someone brings up freedom of speech (thanks Mirko!) I feel compelled to point out, as most of you know, that ProZ.com is not a "free speech zone". That is, one cannot simply say whatever one wishes on the ProZ.com forums-- there are plenty of other places out there for that. Nor should one assume the forums can be used as a platform to advertise one's opinions without restriction, for example. The forums have a limited scope, and rules that govern them. Here's an FAQ about how that works here: https://www.proz.com/faq/5651#5651

Jared
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Angie Garbarino
 
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