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Limit the ability to edit forum posts after "Agrees"
Thread poster: Katalin Horváth McClure

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:44
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The "Un-agree" doesn't really help this Jul 21, 2018

writeaway wrote:

So that should cover any issues if the forum poster does edit within the current 24 hour period allowed.

As I wrote above:

There is the "Unagree" option, of course, the problem with that is people do not get notified when a post they agreed to is modified. So, unless they repeatedly return to the post they agreed to, they would not know about the change.


 

Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 05:44
Member (2018)
French to English
Proz is not FB Jul 22, 2018

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

Samuel Murray wrote:

One part of the problem is that the "agree" function isn't about agreeing so much as it is about being seen. Clicking "I agree" simply means "I would like people to see that I was here too, I have seen this, and I felt part of their conversation".


Wow, really? I never thought of it that way. I actually thought people click "Agree" when they agreed to what was written there.


People may click to be seen, I think that's more a social media thing. I personally click on "Agree" when I agree with the entire post. We're not here to garner "likes" but to discuss professional matters. One of the reasons I suggested changing the "like" button to "agree" was to make it more suitable to a professional forum.


Katalin Horváth McClure
 

Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 05:44
Member
English to Italian
Yes Jul 22, 2018

Kay Denney wrote:

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

Samuel Murray wrote:

One part of the problem is that the "agree" function isn't about agreeing so much as it is about being seen. Clicking "I agree" simply means "I would like people to see that I was here too, I have seen this, and I felt part of their conversation".


Wow, really? I never thought of it that way. I actually thought people click "Agree" when they agreed to what was written there.


People may click to be seen, I think that's more a social media thing. I personally click on "Agree" when I agree with the entire post. We're not here to garner "likes" but to discuss professional matters. One of the reasons I suggested changing the "like" button to "agree" was to make it more suitable to a professional forum.


"I agree" with you, and totally disagree with Samuel. Never thought about this feature that way (but then again, I don't see the FB "Like" that way either...).

Actually, in addition to being a simple way to say you agree with something without having to write a post, I also believe this feature is useful as a means to show ProZ staff if and in what measure an idea expressed on the fora (e.g. a feature request, a bug report, a suggestion, a complaint about something, etc.) is shared by others.

[Edited at 2018-07-23 09:06 GMT]


Kay Denney
Katalin Horváth McClure
Michele Fauble
Robert Forstag
 

Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 05:44
Member (2006)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Overrulezzz Jul 23, 2018

writeaway wrote:

Too many rulezzz spoil the broth. Imo.



I remember the time (years ago) when Kudoz had this "overruling" problem, not just concerning agrees or disagrees or answers, but it happened that some members' points were reducing due to report of such questions where more terms were asked and even though the answer was chosen and the question was closed, someone reported the Kudoz question (that more terms were asked) and the whole question was deleted so he lost points. He found this out accidentally when he realized that he had less points than before and finally it turned out this was the problem behind.

[Edited at 2018-07-23 07:43 GMT]


 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:44
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Please stop killing the English language Jul 23, 2018

There is no "agree" noun in the English language.

 

Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 07:44
English to Russian
I would use Thanks instead Jul 23, 2018

Unlike Kudoz that supposes arguing about terms and giving rationale for your position, agreeing at a forum thread does not add any value. You agree or disagree? So what. Do you really think I change my mind once I get to know that you disagree? Highly unlikely...
“Thanks” would be more useful because not all people know how to spell it.


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:44
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
There is similarity Jul 23, 2018

Katalin Szilárd wrote:

writeaway wrote:

Too many rulezzz spoil the broth. Imo.



I remember the time (years ago) when Kudoz had this "overruling" problem, not just concerning agrees or disagrees or answers,

KudoZ rules have not changed in many years. I have no idea what you are referring to as "overruling problem" concerning agrees or disagrees or answers. (Please do not start explaining this, it is not a question, I am just saying I don't think KudoZ has too many rules.)

but it happened that some members' points were reducing due to report of such questions where more terms were asked and even though the answer was chosen and the question was closed, someone reported the Kudoz question (that more terms were asked) and the whole question was deleted so he lost points. He found this out accidentally when he realized that he had less points than before and finally it turned out this was the problem behind.


That problem wasn't with the rules. If one answers a question that violates the posting rules, one runs the risk of wasting time with answering, because the points may be lost after all (when the rules are enforced).
There may be "gray areas" in applying that particular KudoZ rule (more than 10 words), and perhaps in the case of other rules, too, and that is precisely why KudoZ questions that received at least one answer are now "locked", meaning they cannot be squashed by KudoZ editors (who are regular members with KudoZ editing privileges). Removing a question that has an answer requires intervention by "higher authority" (site staff or moderators). This automatic locking mechanism adds a layer of protection for those who interacted with the question (answered or agreed/disagreed).

KudoZ questions and answers are not editable at all, for various (IMHO valid) reasons. Adding a note is possible though, which may be a solution here, too.


 

Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 05:44
Member (2006)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
And the correct usage is...? Jul 23, 2018

Tom in London wrote:

There is no "agree" noun in the English language.


I see now that this is very important for you: https://www.proz.com/forum/site_forums/326098-forum_"agree"_button_released.html

I have seen extremely many English native-speaking translators (even very good ones) on this site who were writing the word "agree" as a noun.

Languages change. New words are born every day. And in this case everybody knows what the word "agree" means.

How would you say it then?
And for example when someone agrees with a Kudoz or a post, how would you say he/she sends/submits a ...??

*Edited for typo.




[Edited at 2018-07-23 16:40 GMT]


Chris S
 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:44
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
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TOPIC STARTER
Agreeing does add value Jul 23, 2018

Stepan Konev wrote:

Unlike Kudoz that supposes arguing about terms and giving rationale for your position, agreeing at a forum thread does not add any value.


I disagree with your assessment. Forum threads are for discussions, and posts are used for "giving rationale for your position". You can agree or disagree with a post by creating a new post (reply), perhaps quote some of the text posted by others.
The Agree button is there to make it easier to express your agreement with a post, without creating a new post. It also allows several people to express their agreement in one place, right where the post is. This is a feature that had been requested by forum users for a long time.

You agree or disagree? So what. Do you really think I change my mind once I get to know that you disagree? Highly unlikely...

That, I guess, depends on the person. Many people engage in discussions because they are interested in others' opinions, and they are open to change their minds. It is not about being "right", it is usually about finding a solution to some problem or issue.

“Thanks” would be more useful because not all people know how to spell it.

Sorry, you got me lost here.


Chris S
 

Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 07:44
English to Russian
Agree Jul 23, 2018

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
Sorry, you got me lost here.

It has nothing to do with you, and you are not obliged to comment on my every word

I clearly see why Kudoz needs the "Agree/Disagree" feature, but I can't find a use for it here on forum.
— What do I do with a non-paying agency?
— Sue them. (4 agreeers, a term for Tom )
— Forget them. (2 agreeers)
— Blacklist them. (5 agreeers)
— Ok, I will blacklist them, thanks everyone

Just my opinion.
...
Ok, let it be not Thanks but Have a nice day for example.


 

Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 05:44
Member (2006)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Parallel example Jul 23, 2018

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:


That problem wasn't with the rules. If one answers a question that violates the posting rules, one runs the risk of wasting time with answering, because the points may be lost after all (when the rules are enforced).


There is a good reason why I mentioned Kudoz & rules posts/agreements (just to make Tom in London happy;) & rules.

If a question is closed it should not be deleted totally.
There are extremely many Kudoz in all language pairs where rules were violated because more terms were asked and answered/1 Kudoz question and these questions were closed. The solution is not going back in archive Kudoz and deleting whole Kudoz questions but preventing the problem.

Posts and agreements

Your suggestion is: if someone edits her/his post agreements of the post should be reset (I assume you meant delete).
This is controversial since there is no notifications about agreements at all neither about editing posts.
So those people who sent their agreements will not know that their agreements are deleted.

____________________________________________________________________________
*
Updated (yes, edited) because I forgot to write most important thing and didn't want to write this in a new post.

When those Kudoz were deleted back then, the people who answered those Kudoz were not notified at all. Not even those whose answers were selected. So only after some investigations it turned out that points were reducing because questions/answers were erased - without notifying those who contributed to the question.



[Edited at 2018-07-23 13:28 GMT]


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:44
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Reset was not my suggestion Jul 23, 2018

Katalin Szilárd wrote:

Your suggestion is: if someone edits her/his post agreements of the post should be reset (I assume you meant delete).

It was not my suggestion, it was Samuel's.
I just wrote I thought that may also be an acceptable solution.
Please remember, this thread is about what happens in the first 24 hours after a post is created. (Because after 24 hours, the post is locked - becomes non-editable - anyway.)


____________________________________________________________________________
*
Updated (yes, edited) because I forgot to write most important thing and didn't want to write this in a new post.


You see what you did there? You added a note manually (making it look like the automatic note adding function in KudoZ).
This is what I suggested as an alternative solution for editing within 24 hours when there is an Agree. (Tom, I know it is weird, but language does change. Since FB introduced "Like" it has become part of the language and used as a noun, even in plural, as "Likes". Here, in ProZ-land, Agrees and Disagrees are like that. Fact of life, I guess.)


 

Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 07:44
English to Russian
Smily Jul 23, 2018

Here in this thread, you and others agree and disagree with me and others. Even though you have the Agree button, you cannot help yourself from posting another hundred words. Because simply clicking a button is so boring.
Am I right or am I right?
(I am not serious)


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 23:44
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
There is no disagree button, unfortunately Jul 23, 2018

Stepan Konev wrote:

Here in this thread, you and others agree and disagree with me and others. Even though you have the Agree button, you cannot help yourself from posting another hundred words. Because simply clicking a button is so boring.
Am I right or am I right?
(I am not serious)

Of course, you are right.


Kay Denney
writeaway
 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:44
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Indeed Jul 23, 2018

Katalin Szilárd wrote:

...New words are born everyday.



I rest my case.


 
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