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What bothers you about the forums? (Poor spelling?)
Thread poster: Bernhard Sulzer

Balasubramaniam L.  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 16:11
English to Hindi
+ ...
Mine too Aug 16, 2015

Woodstock wrote:

When the person who initiated the topic disappears with no reaction or acknowledgement of the answers. Very rude behavior, in my opinon, because people responding have usually gone out of their way to be helpful.


 

Balasubramaniam L.  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 16:11
English to Hindi
+ ...
What doesn't bother me Aug 16, 2015

I don't mind the bad English, in fact I welcome it. People come to the forums for help and camaraderie. I am not so uncouth as to direct them to phrase their requests in perfect English before they get my penny's worth. I provide it to them to the best of my abilities, often in imperfect English, hoping that they will take it in the well meaning way I meant it to be taken.

We need to realize that English holds a peculiar position in the world due to historic and unpalatable reasons
... See more
I don't mind the bad English, in fact I welcome it. People come to the forums for help and camaraderie. I am not so uncouth as to direct them to phrase their requests in perfect English before they get my penny's worth. I provide it to them to the best of my abilities, often in imperfect English, hoping that they will take it in the well meaning way I meant it to be taken.

We need to realize that English holds a peculiar position in the world due to historic and unpalatable reasons as a language of business and of science and technology. It is the link language. Many people don't use it as native speakers would use it, but as a utility language, with the sole purpose of getting their idea across. This is why it is often shorn of elegance or grammar. Grammar and elegance are secondary in this process, the main idea is communication, and as long as posts communicate, I don't mind.

Of course, it would be desirable that people write clearly, as it increases their chance of being understood correctly, but that is not a delimiting condition for me, as in most cases I am able to guess correctly what they mean to say. I am prepared to take this effort on their account and offer the little help I can.

[Edited at 2015-08-16 05:39 GMT]
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Balasubramaniam L.  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 16:11
English to Hindi
+ ...
Never seen one Aug 16, 2015

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:

A certain basic level of English (especially regarding spelling and basic sentence structure and tenses) seems quite reasonable to me.

[Edited at 2014-09-22 05:35 GMT]


I have been with proz.com for a decade now, and have been plaguing these English forums quite a bit. I haven't seen a single post so far that does not meet your above requirement. So what is your problem? Surely you have some other agenda behind starting this thread? Why not spell it out so that it is communicated more clearly and we could respond to your real intentions, rather than basing our responses on our guesses about it. While it is easy to guess what people want to say when they say it in imperfect language, it is near impossible when they couch it in seemingly innocent and grandiose statements which in fact are mischievous and mean something entirely different from their face value. That is a million times more repugnant than mere grammar and spelling errors.

[Edited at 2015-08-16 05:35 GMT]


 

2nl (X)  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 11:41
I'd welcome a mobile site Aug 16, 2015

Since I mostly use my iPhone to read*) postings in forums at Proz.com, I'd welcome a mobile version of the site, like:

https://cafetran.freshdesk.com/support/discussions

Or:

https://forum.keyboardmaestro.com

The latter is the gold standard for
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Since I mostly use my iPhone to read*) postings in forums at Proz.com, I'd welcome a mobile version of the site, like:

https://cafetran.freshdesk.com/support/discussions

Or:

https://forum.keyboardmaestro.com

The latter is the gold standard for me. I especially like the topic/thread suggestion when posting a new message.

I would also like a simple way to insert images like screenshots. (Currently I have to upload them to another website or forum and refer to them by means of an embedded link -- all kind of clumsy, in my opinion.)

*) For writing postings I normally use a computer -- unless I have no access to one.

As a side note: You can use a macro tool like AutoHotkey or Keyboard Maestro to easily insert lists, make words bold, convert paragraphs to quotations etc. -- all features that should be provided by the Proz editor itself.

Last but not least: a draft mode that saves postings before they are published. Quite some (longer) postings didn't appear after hitting the "Send*)" button (cannot see the correct name at this very moment, since I'm using iOS's Notes right now...). So I started using a text editor to write my postings. Afterwards I paste the finished message into a browser window. Yet another bypass when posting at Proz.

*) Post reply
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2nl (X)  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 11:41
Transparency Aug 16, 2015

I don't like offending and unfair postings from members whose identity cannot be verified at their profile page. I really don't understand why Proz doesn't require them to enter a real name and location there.

(I must admit that I didn't browse the archives or FAQs on this -- any links are highly appreciated.)

I also don't like it when members are employees of tool or service providers but hide this behind phantasy names.

Transparency is a prerequisite in
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I don't like offending and unfair postings from members whose identity cannot be verified at their profile page. I really don't understand why Proz doesn't require them to enter a real name and location there.

(I must admit that I didn't browse the archives or FAQs on this -- any links are highly appreciated.)

I also don't like it when members are employees of tool or service providers but hide this behind phantasy names.

Transparency is a prerequisite in a professional forum.


[Edited at 2015-08-16 18:12 GMT]
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:41
Member (2008)
Italian to English
What??!!! Aug 16, 2015

Balasubramaniam L. wrote:

....Grammar and elegance are secondary in this process, the main idea is communication,


Do you think good grammar, a good writing style, and correct spelling are just frivolous, optional add-ons that play no role in communication and have no importance? I think there's something fundamentally wrong with that.


 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:41
Member (2008)
Italian to English
deleted Aug 16, 2015

deleted

I wish there were an option for entirely deleting a post. Or is there one that I can't find?

[Edited at 2015-08-16 07:44 GMT]


 

Elizabeth Tamblin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:41
Member (2012)
French to English
A delete option would be good Aug 16, 2015

Tom in London wrote:

deleted

I wish there were an option for entirely deleting a post. Or is there one that I can't find?

[Edited at 2015-08-16 07:44 GMT]


I haven't found one either.


 

Georgie Scott  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 11:41
Member (2009)
French to English
+ ...
You are wonderful! Aug 16, 2015

Matthias Brombach wrote:

I would rather suggest a predictive writing tool for forum posts than implementing spell checkers or native-speakers-only barrieres: As soon as you begin to write your post about common issues like underpayment, rude behaviour of outsourcers, getting established, banking fees etc., the text will automatically be completed by setable tones: friendly mode, unfriendly mode, open offensive mode, disguised offensive mode, social mode, neoliberal or troll mode (especially for the German forum) etc.


Friendly mode.


 

Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 11:41
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Good point: Aug 16, 2015

2nl wrote:

I don't like offending and unfair postings from members whose identity cannot be verified at their profile page. I really don't understand why Proz doesn't require them to enter a real name and location there.
Transparency is a prerequisite in a professional forum.


Even "Facebook" or at least "LinkedIn" and "Xing" are organized like that (as far as I know).
The latter two mentioned fora are highly professional fora (feel free to object against my supposition, as I´m not a member of any of these).


 

Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 11:41
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
It seems to work! Aug 16, 2015

interpretwhisky wrote:

Matthias Brombach wrote:

I would rather suggest a predictive writing tool for forum posts than implementing spell checkers or native-speakers-only barrieres: As soon as you begin to write your post about common issues like underpayment, rude behaviour of outsourcers, getting established, banking fees etc., the text will automatically be completed by setable tones: friendly mode, unfriendly mode, open offensive mode, disguised offensive mode, social mode, neoliberal or troll mode (especially for the German forum) etc.


Friendly mode.


How did you implement it?


 

Madeleine Chevassus  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 11:41
Member (2010)
English to French
a few remarks Aug 16, 2015

Dear all,

1) I agree with the need for a clever editor within the forums, (at least for English)

there is a big need for a good & simple search engine (like Google) for the whole Proz site.

Many topics in Kudoz and in forums are duplicated.

There is also a need - as 2nl says - for a draft mode in forums and when quoting to avoid to loose a long quote. Well I tried to explain that to support, but may be my English..


<
... See more
Dear all,

1) I agree with the need for a clever editor within the forums, (at least for English)

there is a big need for a good & simple search engine (like Google) for the whole Proz site.

Many topics in Kudoz and in forums are duplicated.

There is also a need - as 2nl says - for a draft mode in forums and when quoting to avoid to loose a long quote. Well I tried to explain that to support, but may be my English..



2) the problem raised by Balasubramaniam is an interesting one: hegemony of English.

How can you expect a Birmanese to Chinese translator or simpler, German to French translator should master English (:


Have a nice Sunday (:

Madeleine



[Edited at 2015-08-16 10:55 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-08-16 10:57 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-08-16 10:58 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-08-16 10:59 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-08-16 14:33 GMT]
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Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 11:41
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
Form over content? Aug 16, 2015

Tom in London wrote:

Balasubramaniam L. wrote:

....Grammar and elegance are secondary in this process, the main idea is communication,


Do you think good grammar, a good writing style, and correct spelling are just frivolous, optional add-ons that play no role in communication and have no importance? I think there's something fundamentally wrong with that.



You can't mean any drivel goes, just as long as it is correctly spelled and the style is faultless?

As the perpetrator of a great many typos (in spite of the even greater numbers I manage to correct) and probably dubious style on many occasions, I defend the rights of people with interesting opinions to state them on this site. Grammar and elegance may make them more memorable or pleasant to read - or the little flaws may make them more interesting at times!

I have a deep respect for those who write in perfectly understandable English as a second or third language.

I don't think anyone is implying that good, correct style is frivolous and of no importance. That is very different from taking second place to putting the meaning across.


 

José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 08:41
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
Deletion and save draft Aug 16, 2015

Tom in London wrote:

deleted

I wish there were an option for entirely deleting a post. Or is there one that I can't find?


Great idea, Tom, of course, limited to anyone deleting their own posts.

Another good option would be to "save as draft", i.e. when we are writing a post and something urgent comes up, to enable us to resume writing/checking it later.

However in the case (below), I tend to disagree:

Tom in London wrote:

Do you think good grammar, a good writing style, and correct spelling are just frivolous, optional add-ons that play no role in communication and have no importance? I think there's something fundamentally wrong with that.


Sometimes a Prozian may have valuable information to add to a thread, however their command of the prevailing language is lame. The lingua franca on Proz is English, and both of us incidentally have it as a working language, yet - believe it or not - some people here don't.

My commend of IT/FR/ES is somewhat limited, and that's why I don't translate from them, ever! Anyway, I subscribe to their language-specific forums, not much traffic there. When I see that I can contribute to, say, a question posted in IT by a DE-IT translator, I'll make an effort to answer it in Italian, which I am sure that won't be perfect. I have to add a note on that, like "Chedo di scusare i miei sbagli, perché ho studiato Italiano molt'anni fà, e forse ne abbia imparato poco e dimenticato troppo" ("I apologize for my mistakes, as I studied Italian long ago, and perhaps I learned too little, and forgot too much of it.") Folks are usually thankful for my going the extra mile (sideways!) to help them.

Now consider the same DE-IT posting a message on a mainstream forum here, all in EN, of course. Would you condemn/ignore them on account of poor grammar?


 

Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:41
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
New forum? Aug 16, 2015

I have read through this thread. Most of the issues that people raise seem perfectly sensible and most have already been implemented in more forward-looking forums.

Why don't we just start another forum? Free, transparent, not dependent on job postings, no intrusive moderation, modern forum software...

Regards
Dan


 
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