| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Trolls on Proz Thread poster: Emma Goldsmith
|
|---|
Emma Goldsmith 
Spain
Local time: 17:12
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
I've come across two threads on Proz in 24 hours that I would classify as trolls.
In the first the original poster made some ridiculous spelling mistakes and was corrected by several well-intentioned Prozians, but a quick visit to this person's profile showed that he/she could not be a translator at all. It took 48 hours and 19 posts to get this thread locked (despite submitting a support request after 24 hours).
The second was someone who fills up paragraphs with so m... See more I've come across two threads on Proz in 24 hours that I would classify as trolls.
In the first the original poster made some ridiculous spelling mistakes and was corrected by several well-intentioned Prozians, but a quick visit to this person's profile showed that he/she could not be a translator at all. It took 48 hours and 19 posts to get this thread locked (despite submitting a support request after 24 hours).
The second was someone who fills up paragraphs with so many nonsensical roundabouts that people feel obliged to point out how badly written it is. OK, I admit it, I fell for it This thread has yet to be locked. Posts are already being hidden...
I would like to see these threads locked as soon as possible.
When people suggest that a thread is a troll, that particular post is quickly removed, thus eliminating a valid alert that has been made for others to heed. I think that a neutral, inoffensive post saying "I think this is a troll. I suggest we do not continue with our comments" is not off-topic at all. It is very much to the point.
The big problem here is that it is so tempting to reply to a troll. But if we read a colleague's inoffensive post saying "I think this is a troll", we might learn to take a deep breath and click on with what we should actually be doing. ▲ Collapse
| | | |
Emma Goldsmith wrote:
When people suggest that a thread is a troll, that particular post is quickly removed, thus eliminating a valid alert that has been made for others to heed. I think that a neutral, inoffensive post saying "I think this is a troll. I suggest we do not continue with our comments" is not off-topic at all. It is very much to the point.
Hello Emma,
I couldn't agree more. Several of my posts have been hidden recently. Okay, I admit some of them sounded a little harsh, but the rest were merely saying "this is probably a troll". So, if posts saying "this is probably a troll" are censored, how can we defend other users from feeding the troll?
| | | | | Flagging and blocking, like KudoZ? | Nov 18, 2010 |
I wonder if it would be possible to block certain people's forum contributions, just as it is possible in KudoZ?
It is already possible to track forums, threads and topics.
The only thing to do with trolls is to make a mental note to ignore them, but an automatic way of doing it would be useful.
Anonymous feedback to the poster on the lines of:
´Xxx members have blocked you so that they cannot see your postings"
might be a hint that these peopl... See more I wonder if it would be possible to block certain people's forum contributions, just as it is possible in KudoZ?
It is already possible to track forums, threads and topics.
The only thing to do with trolls is to make a mental note to ignore them, but an automatic way of doing it would be useful.
Anonymous feedback to the poster on the lines of:
´Xxx members have blocked you so that they cannot see your postings"
might be a hint that these people should go and tweet or follow the mob on sites where they are appreciated instead of spreading spam here.
I am afraid it would not reduce the postings, but it would save irritation. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Not all publicity is good publicity | Nov 18, 2010 |
He's been taken to task before, months ago, for starting a new thread here everytime he made a new blog post.
Now he's using proz as his actual blog, judging from the content and the style
Now, if you posted a job, and you had to pick between him and someone else, what you you do? As my grandad used to say (altho apparently, this was not his own original thought, much to my disappointment), it is better t... See more He's been taken to task before, months ago, for starting a new thread here everytime he made a new blog post.
Now he's using proz as his actual blog, judging from the content and the style
Now, if you posted a job, and you had to pick between him and someone else, what you you do? As my grandad used to say (altho apparently, this was not his own original thought, much to my disappointment), it is better to keep quiet and have people think you're a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
As long as people aren't actually being offensive, live and let live, I say. We can all draw our own conclusions, can we not? ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Arianne Farah
Canada
Local time: 11:12
Member (2008)
English to French
| On a tangent... | Nov 18, 2010 |
On other forums I frequent you can choose to ignore certain people and their post simply don't appear as you read (or rather they look like that darker bar when mods have deleted a post and they say something along the lines of "You have chosen not to see this person's posts. If you wish to see the post please click here").
There are a few posters that, while not trolls per se, because there seems to be no malice involved, are simply time wasters or prolific posters of nonsense (one... See more On other forums I frequent you can choose to ignore certain people and their post simply don't appear as you read (or rather they look like that darker bar when mods have deleted a post and they say something along the lines of "You have chosen not to see this person's posts. If you wish to see the post please click here").
There are a few posters that, while not trolls per se, because there seems to be no malice involved, are simply time wasters or prolific posters of nonsense (one in particular comes to mind, at first there was an absurd appeal to reading them, like reading Ionesco, but at 5 to 10 posts per day I quickly grew tired) and while it's entirely their right to post, it's also my right not to read
But yeah, baschlurs chick took the cake this week. It was kind of funny, but as the above example, the novelty wears off very quickly!
Edited to add that there were only 2 posts in the thread when I started crafting this answer and hadn't seen the next 2 until after posting Seems as though I'm not the only person with this suggestion
[Edited at 2010-11-18 10:49 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 17:12
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER
I do not think that replying to such topics is the best course of action. Almost every forum has a moderator assigned and policing such kind of behavior is exactly what they are supposed to do...
This is commonly practiced on many forums I visit - replying to such posts only "feeds the trolls", encouraging them - it is better to rely on administrative action. If the offensive behavior continues, moderators may further measures to discipline such users.
I do not know abo... See more I do not think that replying to such topics is the best course of action. Almost every forum has a moderator assigned and policing such kind of behavior is exactly what they are supposed to do...
This is commonly practiced on many forums I visit - replying to such posts only "feeds the trolls", encouraging them - it is better to rely on administrative action. If the offensive behavior continues, moderators may further measures to discipline such users.
I do not know about support requests, it might be that calling a topic to moderator's attention would receive quicker response.
Of course, there are posts which fall through the cracks in the forum mechanics... maybe one more rule should be added: "Posts must not be offensive to common sense!". But then I might see some of my own posts removed... ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Not a troll? | Nov 18, 2010 |
Unfortunately I fear that the person whose recent posts prompted this thread to be started is not a troll at all (unlike last week's hairy-chinned mythical beast).
So for all that I am myself exasperated by such behaviour, I'm with Charlie's grandad. Let fools out themselves, I say.
| | | | Simone Linke
Germany
Local time: 17:12
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| Ask yourself... | Nov 18, 2010 |
While I agree that troll posts should be locked and removed, I think the better course of action is to make forum participants aware of what a troll is (link to the Proz wiki, sticky forum FAQs or similar) and then to let each forum participant make their own decision on how to proceed.
In the end, each forum participant should ask themselves:
- Why am I replying to some newbie? (Check their profile first!)
- Will my reply really change anything? (Do you really th... See more While I agree that troll posts should be locked and removed, I think the better course of action is to make forum participants aware of what a troll is (link to the Proz wiki, sticky forum FAQs or similar) and then to let each forum participant make their own decision on how to proceed.
In the end, each forum participant should ask themselves:
- Why am I replying to some newbie? (Check their profile first!)
- Will my reply really change anything? (Do you really think you can help someone who has a "bashler" degree from "Flo" and nothing else in his profile?)
- Is this worth my time?
I think these three questions will solve many problems. Someone may ask a question that has been asked before - this can and will happen (and I certainly have done that too), and sometimes it really is difficult to sort through all the previous answers to apply them to your own very specific situation. But if people do pose very simple/naive/easy-to-answer-by-using-almighty-Google questions, they should at least show some efforts on their part (a complete profile.. or their own answer to their question to show that they have given it some thought.. or anything like that). And then I'm ok with spending some time on helping them. After all, I've found many helpful posts at Proz myself when I started.
And even if you do fall for a clever troll whose request just wasn't sincere, your answer to them will at least be visible in the forums and add to your reputation. There are some forum posters who I repeatedly notice for their very thoughtful and knowledgeable replies - and if I ever need a translator in their language pairs, I'd know whom to approach, so, remember: even if your reply to someone in a forum might appear to be in vain, it can still be useful for someone else who's just reading along.
Thus, ask yourself: why do I reply to someone, and will this reply pay off in one way or another?
If you have a satisfactory answer to these questions, you don't need to worry about trolls. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Nesrin
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:12
English to Arabic
+ ...
| I'd be a bit wary... | Nov 18, 2010 |
If we look at one definition of troll...
"someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."
I think we can agree that even some long-standing members of this site occasionally make postings that can be classified as "troll-like", but the usual response the... See more If we look at one definition of troll...
"someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."
I think we can agree that even some long-standing members of this site occasionally make postings that can be classified as "troll-like", but the usual response then is either for most members to ignore that thread (because it's so obscure), or for them to be gently told off that their posting is outside the scope of the site, or for the thread to be moved to the off-topic forum.
Just because a poster is new or not known to you doesn't suddenly change the situation and make it acceptable to reply with a post saying "I think this is a troll".
Personally I'd feel very bad for the original poster, who may be a genuinely nice person trying to contribute. S/he may just need some gentle advice on how the site works. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 11:12
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Hard to see the motivation | Nov 18, 2010 |
It is one thing "to stir things up" (per the definition Nesrin has cited), but it is hard to see how incoherent posts filled with scrambled syntax, typos, spelling errors, and lines of argument that are like bridges to nowhere do anything to enhance the online reputation of the poster on a site geared toward language professionals....
[Edited at 2010-11-18 11:58 GMT]
| | | | Emma Goldsmith
Spain
Local time: 17:12
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER | Interesting discussion ... | Nov 18, 2010 |
... some very valid points have been made.
I do agree with Nesrin and others who believe we should be wary of labelling someone as a troll when they may simply need some gentle guidance. I don't think this actually applies to the cases I saw this week, but the need for gentle guidance should certainly be on our list of questions to ask ourselves, as Simone suggests.
I was looking at a more generalised definition of troll... See more ... some very valid points have been made.
I do agree with Nesrin and others who believe we should be wary of labelling someone as a troll when they may simply need some gentle guidance. I don't think this actually applies to the cases I saw this week, but the need for gentle guidance should certainly be on our list of questions to ask ourselves, as Simone suggests.
I was looking at a more generalised definition of troll when I wrote my initial post. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Don't_feed_the_troll (Sorry, this link breaks because of the apostrophe, but works if you paste it into your browser)
A troll [...] is interested in :
- Deliberately angering people.
- Breaking the normal flow of debate/discussion.
- Deliberately being annoying for the sake of being obnoxious. For instance, using abusive names to refer to all the members on the site.
- Making itself the main topic of interest or discussion.
The last point is the one that tends to catch me unawares. On the surface the topic appears to be reasonable, but then you realise that it has only been written for the sake of posting. Period. The topic doesn't matter at all.
I also agree with Jabberwock, that moderators should play a role here. It is only a pity that the result of this action tends to be targeted at people who reply, rather than eliminating the root cause.
By the way, Robert, most trolls are probably not concerned about their online reputation. In one case I have in mind, this person was definitely not a language professional at all because the native-language comments in the profile were written using MT or similar.
Flagging or blocking certain forum posters as Christine and Arianne suggest would be a useful feature. I could have made good use of it this morning
Edited to sort out the non-functioning link.
[Edited at 2010-11-18 15:02 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 17:12
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| How to deal with trolls | Nov 18, 2010 |
Emma Goldsmith wrote:
When people suggest that a thread is a troll, that particular post is quickly removed, thus eliminating a valid alert that has been made for others to heed.
This is because it is considered rude (by some of us) to speculate about the good faith of the participants in the forum. There is a disturbing trend by some people to openly discuss (in the very same thread) and question the motives of other people who post in these forums.
If you believe that a poster or thread-starter is acting maliciously, the appropriate course of action is to notify a moderator. It is not appropriate (at least not here) to use the forum thread itself for a side-discussion about whether another participant should forfeit his right to participate. There are unmoderated or clique-moderated translator forums on the internet that people can participate in if they want the freedom to call people trolls to their face.
I think that a neutral, inoffensive post saying "I think this is a troll. I suggest we do not continue with our comments" is not off-topic at all. It is very much to the point.
If the topic if a thread is "how to open a PDF" or "marketing your services" or suchlike, then that is the toipc, and anything else (including speculation about the motives of the thread starter) is clearly off-topic.
Besides, not everyone reads all posts before writing a reply to the original post or to posts that they are tracking (mentally), so any comment that "we should not continue to respond" may not even be read. There are mechanisms in place for ensuring that people no longer respond to particular threads... but hijacking a thread to discuss the validity of the thread is not one them.
| | |
|
|
|
| What can be done | Nov 18, 2010 |
This was a very interesting exchange
I like Simone's idea of having a ProZ.com wiki page on forum participation.
I tend to line with those who advise to assume good faith, and I subscribe to every word in Samuel's excellent post.
Posting in a forum thread about the poster, even to say "I believe this is a troll" are ad-hominem statements not in line with general rule #2 and they also depart from the posted t... See more This was a very interesting exchange
I like Simone's idea of having a ProZ.com wiki page on forum participation.
I tend to line with those who advise to assume good faith, and I subscribe to every word in Samuel's excellent post.
Posting in a forum thread about the poster, even to say "I believe this is a troll" are ad-hominem statements not in line with general rule #2 and they also depart from the posted topic, and therefore are not in line with forum rule #4.
On the other hand if you believe that a forum poster is a troll you can communicate this to a moderator or to staff by means of a support request. Staff and moderators can add notes that are not visible to the community and these notes can be used to share the received reports.
Lastly, most trolls are likely to be non-members and have no verified identity, and this means that their forum posts will need to be approved by moderators. With a "possible troll" note in display these posts will receive a proper level of scrutiny before they are approved.
Regards,
Enrique ▲ Collapse
| | | |
Charlie Bavington wrote: He's been taken to task before, months ago, for starting a new thread here everytime he made a new blog post. Now he's using proz as his actual blog, judging from the content and the style Now, if you posted a job, and you had to pick between him and someone else, what you you do? As my grandad used to say (altho apparently, this was not his own original thought, much to my disappointment), it is better to keep quiet and have people think you're a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt. As long as people aren't actually being offensive, live and let live, I say. We can all draw our own conclusions, can we not?
Charlie, It was Mark Twain who said it first, I believe.
Hope this post doesn't classify me as a troll - are there female trolls- lage, hairy-chinned goblins living under Scandinavian bridges? Sounds probable.
Jenny
| | | | | one imagines so | Nov 18, 2010 |
Jenny Forbes wrote:
are there female trolls
otherwise how would the species perpetuate?
*shudders at the thought*
| | | | | Pages in topic: [1 2] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Trolls on Proz | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
| | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
